At last... a revised Audiolab CD/Q thread.

[pwiles1968]

Hi Muz640,

The OLED Glass has ONLY just become available in the 20x2 format that can be retrofitted to the CD/CDQ/DQ; in fact we have secured all the OLED Glass the manufacturer has produced - although they are happy to already have a customer eager to go!

John does that mean we will be able to replace the displays on the CDQ? Will this be available to current owners (At Cost)? Is it something we could fit without affecting warranty?

So Love my CDQ but I have to use the force to judge Volume level from my seat about 10 ft from the unit .

WRT Speakers and Amps to Match the CDQ I can say it really sings with Good speakers and Amp, I am running an Older Bel Canto Evo 2 and B&W 805s and it sounds fantastic, seriously considering auditioning a Bryston 4BssT2 if only my car had not died on me .

 

[arthur]

John does that mean we will be able to replace the displays on the CDQ? Will this be available to current owners (At Cost)? Is it something we could fit without affecting warranty?

So Love my CDQ but I have to use the force to judge Volume level from my seat about 10 ft from the unit .

WRT Speakers and Amps to Match the CDQ I can say it really sings with Good speakers and Amp, I am running an Older Bel Canto Evo 2 and B&W 805s and it sounds fantastic, seriously considering auditioning a Bryston 4BssT2 if only my car had not died on me .

Buy a skateboard! Get the Bryston!!

 

[matyst]

At (roughly) what level do you have the CDQ's internal volume control for normal listening?

Thanks for responses!

Roughly it varies btw -50 dB to -20 dB.
The level of hiss does not depend on the preamp setting and it's constant regardless of attenuation value.

 

[matyst]

Hi Tomasz, which version of the CDQ have you got, with or without the +12V trigger out?

No 12V trigger. I was not even aware there are two versions, I'd like the trigger. Can it be retrofitted?

 

[JohnW]

Hi pwiles1968,

Yes, the OLED update will be available for retrofit to CD/CDQ owners in a couple of months - the replacement OLED module + Carrier PCB will be Free of Charge (as a small thank you to our customers) - but with a 1 hour service charge

If you’re skilled in soldering and reworking with SMD, it’s a relatively easy job, the hardest part is to remove the old LCD module, clearing out the solder pads of solder on a double sided PCB with heavy ground plane - a time consuming procedure. The front panel PCB also requires modification, with the removal of unneeded SMD components and a couple of wire links need to be added.

Unfortunately the software has also to be updated to drive the new OLED panel, so it’s not a "Skilled" Diy'er job as the Diy’er will not have the programming tools...

As the unit has to be returned to a service centre to be stripped down and rebuilt - I'm also considering / suggesting to update the transformer at the same time, as the DQ (which are fitted with the new transformer) sound better then there close cousin the CDQ (&CD) - I believe this is due to the new transformer (deeper / firmer Bass & Wider sound staging). I'm suggesting that the new transformer should be sold at cost (mostly shipping from China, as they are a heavy item) - I would expect somewhere between GBP20 to GBP30 - so I would like to discuss with IAG UK and IAD Germany for a package price - OLED update, Transformer + Software & return shipping... This will be put into place over the next couple of months. Supplies of the Transformers & OLED's are limited. We also have to recertify (for Safety) the CD/CDQ with the new transformers before they can be released - this is a time consuming bureaucratic (and expensive) process...

John

 

[arthur]

I'm also considering / suggesting to update the transformer at the same time, as the DQ (which are fitted with the new transformer) sound better then there close cousin the CDQ (&CD) - I believe this is due to the new transformer (deeper / firmer Bass & Wider sound staging). I'm suggesting that the new transformer should be sold at cost (mostly shipping from China, as they are a heavy item) - I would expect somewhere between GBP20 to GBP30 - so I would like to discuss with IAG UK and IAD Germany for a package price - OLED update, Transformer + Software & return shipping... This will be put into place over the next couple of months. Supplies of the Transformers & OLED's are limited. We also have to recertify (for Safety) the CD/CDQ with the new transformers before they can be released - this is a time consuming bureaucratic (and expensive) process...

John

Hi John, excellent and welcome news.

I don't much care about the display butI am concerned about the transformer hum on my cdq.

If I can expect a little better sound quality too then so much the better!

I hope the price doesn't shoot up too high though

Look forward to the news closer to the time.

Thanks again.

 

[JohnW]

matyst,

mimoklepes and other have already correctly answered,

In digital Pre-amplifier mode - there is NO attenuation applied in the analogue domain - so it’s like using your amplifier with its volume control turned to Max (you can in certain systems hear a low level of background hiss close to the speakers). Systems with very sensitive speakers such as horns will make the situation worse. There are 3 things you can do to solve the issue:-

1. Use the analog Pre-Amplifier Mode - thereby apply analogue attenuation.

2. Use a Balanced power amplifier - this gives an 18dB or so improvement in SNR with the CDQ.

3. Add inline attenuators between the CDQ output and the power amp.

The fact you listen at -50dB suggest you have VERY sensitive speakers - we normally have our CDQ set from -25dB to -10dB. Adding the in-line attenuators will solve your issue:-

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

These will also solve your noise-pick up with poorly shielded cables.

I suspect you have DC on yours mains supply as BOTH CDQ and 8200P transformers are humming - you could try a "Mains" DC remover...

"This filter is inserted between the mains grid and the primary winding of the transformer. This way you can avoid mechanical humming from the mains transformer, caused by a varying DC component on the mains grid's AC voltage. The DC component comes from unbalanced loads on the mains grid, such as hair dryers, industrial machinery etc. with only half wave rectification. One half of the AC sine wave is loaded while the other is not. This cause imbalance and a DC."

http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=316

But I'm guessing you need to find a completed unit - not DIY kit.

John

 

[arthur]

Does anyone know of a good reason why I can't buy one of these and fit it into a diy socket then plug my CDQ into that socket?

It looks like the very thing I need to kill the hum.

Please tell me I'm not a cabbage for suggesting such a thing

Ps..even better would be a ready made socket with one already soldered up and all that stuff?

 

[pwiles1968]

Hi pwiles1968,

Yes, the OLED update will be available for retrofit to CD/CDQ owners in a couple of months - the replacement OLED module + Carrier PCB will be Free of Charge (as a small thank you to our customers) - but with a 1 hour service charge

John

Thank you John, good news, worth waiting a few months may have a think about the Transformer too depending on price of course.

Keep up the great work

 

[loris.p]

Hi John W,
I keep reading wonders about your products....
I'm looking forward your return ))))

Loris

ps your PM box is always full

 

[pwiles1968]

Does anyone know of a good reason why I can't buy one of these and fit it into a diy socket then plug my CDQ into that socket?

It looks like the very thing I need to kill the hum.

Please tell me I'm not a cabbage for suggesting such a thing

Ps..even better would be a ready made socket with one already soldered up and all that stuff?

Sounds reasonable to me but I am no expert, not sure it would help with DC specifically but I use Tachima filtered extension blocks, great for filtering noisy mains, and pretty cheap too, I have a couple even improved my TV picture

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002CIMZGU/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

 

[JohnW]

Authur,

I hard to comment on "what level of hum is normal", but you should not be able to hear hum from say 50cm away from your unit - if you can, then your transformer should be replaced under warrenty.

I suspect by your comments that your Hum level is louder then this? If so, we need to get your unit back - but as I suggested ealier, its better to wait for IAG UK to have the "latest" style transformer - a couple of months away before arrive on UK shores i'm afraid - but it will be a FOC warrenty repair - which will include the OLED and software update so some good comes from your "humming" transformer

John

 

[arthur]

Authur,

I hard to comment on "what level of hum is normal", but you should not be able to hear hum from say 50cm away from your unit - if you can, then your transformer should be replaced under warrenty.

I suspect by your comments that your Hum level is louder then this? If so, we need to get your unit back - but as I suggested ealier, its better to wait for IAG UK to have the "latest" style transformer - a couple of months away before arrive on UK shores i'm afraid - but it will be a FOC warrenty repair - which will include the OLED and software update so some good comes from your "humming" transformer

John

Thanks for the reply John.
Yes it can be heard 10 feet away, but not when playing music of course.

I'm happy to wait to get the good stuff.

I'll mention it to the dealer.

I'm alway's a little embarassed with warranty claims

But must be done.

Cheers, Arthur.

 

[JohnW]

Arthur,

It should be I who is embarassed about warrety claims not you!!! - I'm very sorry for your issue.

The DC filter will not help with this level of Hum, its a faulty transformer plain and simple!

10 feet away - that's TERRIBLE by anyone's standard - its not like its a High Voltage Sub-Station!!

So sorry - I will findout if we can express a few transformers somehow... I'm so embarassed!

John

 

[arthur]

Hi John.

That's 10 feet at night when I'm reading or sleeping, I hope I'm not making it sound worse than it is.

And it certainly does not interfere with me enjoying the music (unless it should sound even better and I don't know )

The real concern is that it is louder than it was a while back which I assume is bad?

I certainly didn't mean to cause you any grief at all .

Thank you for taking an interest, much appreciated.

 

[pwiles1968]

2. Use a Balanced power amplifier - this gives an 18dB or so improvement in SNR with the CDQ.

3. Add inline attenuators between the CDQ output and the power amp.

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

John

Quick question, I Use balanced cable I made myself and as I was listening at around -30 or lower so I decided to attenuate the cable itself, (could not fit the attenuators in at the back of my rack if I wanted to) I just used a Center tapped 'L' pad on each signal wire From memory it was about 10k 60k used standard 5% resistors but measured them and picked closest match, it gave me around 17dB of attenuation, I listen around -10 to -20 now.

Does this sound to you like a sensible way of attenuating or would something like the rothwell have given superior results?

 

[JohnW]

Pwiles,

I'd try using 4 resistors per balanced lead, with a simple Series R, and R to Ground on each of the Hot and Cold signals on the balanced line, this way you attenuate both Common mode and Differential signals. If I understand your current Lpad arrangment, Common-mode signals (such as RF and CM noise) would not be attenuated.

Also try going lower with resistor values; the CDQ's Class A Output stages have no issue with higher current - thus reducing the effects of cable capacitance and induced noise etc.

Also, place the attenuators at the Amp end, rather then the CDQ again to reduce the effects of cable capacitance and to allow the CDQ's low impedance output stage to drive the cable with authority!

John

 

[JohnW]

A good read for thought of the subject of DC on the mains supply:-

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/xfmr-dc.htm

 

[LittleToast]

My CDQ is now well-utilized. I am so happy with it.

John: Thanks so much for an upgrade path for existing owners. My software version is 0.9B/67/0.9A. Probably the earlier batches. I will wait for the Mk2 upgrade that hopefully contains the CROSS. I think that could be in 2 yrs time with all the activities once the MDAC and QDAC are released.

I had thought Matyst problem involves some sound from the speakers when the power amp is turned on but the CDQ turned off. I have this problem with my powered speaker (ADAM compact classic). On hosa cables (balanced) no high pitch hiss. With another pair of silver cables (balanced) or the van damme, there is a faint high pitch ring on the adams that goes away once the cdq is switched on. I am not sure but I believe this is the fault of the balanced cables' shielding.

My CDQ now acts as a digital preamp for my TV. I also connect my computer to the CDQ. With one remote the CDQ acts as the center of my entertainment. I am very pleased to be able to control itunes or jriver as if the computer is my CD player. Feels great.

I am also in the process of migrating from itunes to J River. I use win7 on a laptop. Most of my music files are in AIFF which foobar can't tag so isn't able to organize. Itunes fail to be bit perfect - though I had set quicktime properly. It outputs in shared mode. I know that as itunes' output bit and freq follow whatever shared mode bit/freq I set in windows device properties. Foobar and jriver are both bit accurate. In jriver, I find that asio sounds better than wasapi or wasapi-event. Most people seems to prefer wasapi.

CDQ filter I was using optimal spectrum and then finally I still switched to OT. It is more natural, though not most "hifi".

Computer playback on the cdq can hardly be differentiated with cd playback of the same track in the cdq, though the cdq itself is a very good cd player. I did ABX test (8 times) for a friend who has good ears and he got it right the first 3 times, but after that he is not sure anymore. If there is a difference, it is very slight. With John and Dominik's design in the CDQ, I can now switch all my music to digital format.

 

[ADL]

Hi pwiles1968,

... I'm also considering / suggesting to update the transformer at the same time, as the DQ (which are fitted with the new transformer) sound better then there close cousin the CDQ (&CD) - I believe this is due to the new transformer (deeper / firmer Bass & Wider sound staging).

John

Dear JohnW, thanks again for the useful info.
Regarding the transformer, from what I understood, old version of CDQ have a let's call V1 version of the transformer while latest CDQ with +12V trigger out have the transformer V2.
Has the DQ a new version V3 of the transformer?

Andrea