Windsor/ Harrogate show.
- Thread starter orangeart
- Start date
We had a very enjoyable day at the Windsor show. Two outstanding rooms for us were the Merging Dac + PSi active speakers and YG Carmel speakers, Boulder amps, fed by a Weiss dac or SME 15. A mention must also go to the PS Audio room and on a more affordable front Revel speakers fronted by and all-in-one Primare player. Music seemed to be the usual hifi show fare and for the first time at a show we did not come back with one must have buy.
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
I wasn't at Windsor but I heard it at Indulgence.
The demonstrator pointed out somethings we were to listen for (for example, the clarity of cymbals) and they were, indeed, clearer. However, it killed the musicality - there was no longer any flow. Didn't like it.
The CAD demo of something similar was much more effective. We were just asked to listen - not told what to listen for. There was a clear improvement in the music. But much more interestingly the designer from CAD said that it wasn't always better - some PSU designs mean it sounds worse with some kit (including CAD's own DAC) and it can make a system worse if the wrong combination of stuff is connected and some ground loops occur. Refreshingly honest. CAD's box is available on buy or return basis.
Julf
Facts are our friends
"You don't need a measuring tape, you should be able to get the length of the table legs the same using your eyes"
AndrewR
pfm Member
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
So are you saying that it did change the sound in some way?
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
In that system with that mains and power block yes, and it wasn't for the better.
Eat Yr Greens
Member
The snack bars are a great opportunity for De Vere to make a bit of cash from a captive crowd; standard practice wherever you go, for whatever type of event, really. That's why I took survival rations in my bag, both days.
I also had a rather large breakfast (bog-standard big hotel fare, self-service) for just a tenner. Decent coffee, pleasant surroundings and the staff are always friendly and helpful.
But late Sunday afternoon I gave in and had a can of fizzy orange for £2. you can't win 'em all...
Eat Yr Greens
Member
This thread is just underway and already I'm confused (not unusual).
It seems quite neat to have views from both shows, but please be clear which one you're talking about. Thanks.
It seems quite neat to have views from both shows, but please be clear which one you're talking about. Thanks.
Harrogate, yesterday, went with a mate and we had a really good time.
I liked the mix of Wam and trade, it was good to be able to go round and talk to likeminded souls.
Takehome messages:
- Speakers are very important. 4x ESL 57s take some beating, nobody there had anything to approach it other than the new Tannoy range, B&O's £££ system and some very impressive open baffle DIY speakers owned by, bizarrely, Steve57.
- A lot of manufacturers choose to demo very upmarket stuff with poor or at best average speakers.
- The B&O stuff is very impressive. Yes, I know, "lifestyle" and all that, but it sounds great and is brilliantly integrated. Drive the whole thing from the remote, switch from NAS to Spotify to YouTube as you wish, no cables, no clutter, very high WAF and just very well presented. If I had footballer money that's what I would spend it on. Would I want to integrate TV and hifi? Not sure, but it's nice to have the choice.
- Lots of manufacurers are still lost in the 80's. Sure, I like your new MOSFET amp in the shiny black boxes, but am I giving you £££? No, it's old news. Make it sing in a domestically attractive setting, I'm in. I want it to fit with my life, I want me and my family to be able to operate it all from a remote, I want women who come into the room to think it's pleasant and a nice way to listen to music without having to have a total geekfest to make it work. If you want to sit stroking your beard and talking about slew rates and THD then that's fine but there's a place for that and it's not in my lounge when I want to put some Miles on. Go to DIY Audio and fill your boots.
What's the future? For me it's about great music and domestic acceptability. Devialet and B&O are maybe too far down the road of style over substance, but there stuff sounds bloody good as well as looking nice. I'm old guard, I have legacy collections to deal with. If I were starting again I would get away from software on display. I'd have a NAS and a means of listening to internet-based music, and an easy way of navigating that. Then I just need a back end consisting of decent amp and speakers, and minimal clutter. What am I personally going to do? Keep the ESL 57s (yes, after all I've said about WAF), continue to develop my internet/Lan listening system, and tidy up my cables.
I liked the mix of Wam and trade, it was good to be able to go round and talk to likeminded souls.
Takehome messages:
- Speakers are very important. 4x ESL 57s take some beating, nobody there had anything to approach it other than the new Tannoy range, B&O's £££ system and some very impressive open baffle DIY speakers owned by, bizarrely, Steve57.
- A lot of manufacturers choose to demo very upmarket stuff with poor or at best average speakers.
- The B&O stuff is very impressive. Yes, I know, "lifestyle" and all that, but it sounds great and is brilliantly integrated. Drive the whole thing from the remote, switch from NAS to Spotify to YouTube as you wish, no cables, no clutter, very high WAF and just very well presented. If I had footballer money that's what I would spend it on. Would I want to integrate TV and hifi? Not sure, but it's nice to have the choice.
- Lots of manufacurers are still lost in the 80's. Sure, I like your new MOSFET amp in the shiny black boxes, but am I giving you £££? No, it's old news. Make it sing in a domestically attractive setting, I'm in. I want it to fit with my life, I want me and my family to be able to operate it all from a remote, I want women who come into the room to think it's pleasant and a nice way to listen to music without having to have a total geekfest to make it work. If you want to sit stroking your beard and talking about slew rates and THD then that's fine but there's a place for that and it's not in my lounge when I want to put some Miles on. Go to DIY Audio and fill your boots.
What's the future? For me it's about great music and domestic acceptability. Devialet and B&O are maybe too far down the road of style over substance, but there stuff sounds bloody good as well as looking nice. I'm old guard, I have legacy collections to deal with. If I were starting again I would get away from software on display. I'd have a NAS and a means of listening to internet-based music, and an easy way of navigating that. Then I just need a back end consisting of decent amp and speakers, and minimal clutter. What am I personally going to do? Keep the ESL 57s (yes, after all I've said about WAF), continue to develop my internet/Lan listening system, and tidy up my cables.
Eat Yr Greens
Member
Thanks for that!
At the Windsor show I had a great time, but as ever I had to ask the question: "Who's actually going to buy this stuff apart from die-hard audiophiles (like me) and rich people looking for status-signalling domestic jewellery?". It's becoming increasingly obvious that ease-of-use can now be achieved with zero impact on sound quality, and recently some really great active speaker solutions have appeared (reducing the box count).
Hi-Fi (as a benchmark of quality, whatever the equipment is actually called) could once again be something that normal people buy and use.
While my aspirations for an upgrade are currently invisible over the debt horizon, friends and family seem to be totally immune to considerations of audio quality. They listen to music (if they seek it out at all) on headphones that came with their smartphones, built-in speakers in their flat-screen televisions and the same in tablets and laptops.
And yet many of them spend large amounts on gadgetry, contracts for and for broadcast and on-demand, meals out, holidays, clothes, you name it. Some audio specialist firms seem to be taking this potential market seriously, but most seem to be reluctant to deviate from the multi-box / upgrade path / ultra-tweaky approach.
What is there on offer for the ordinary Joseph and Josephine? Can people listen to high-quality sound in their living rooms, or is it just for the few who'll put up with living in their listening rooms?
What was there at either of these shows that you could sell to the non-enthusiast?
Eat Yr Greens
Member
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
I saw a pair of KEF LS50 wireless being demonstrated, they are pretty much perfect for a non ‘audiophile ‘ family.
Keith
Keith
What, at £2000? Don't be ridiculous.
davidavdavid
davidavdavid
Having read through the thread so far and the respective reports on each of the show, am going to ask: were either of the two worthwhile from an hifi perspective?, or was it more of a day out, connecting/re-connecting with mates?
The Harrogate show sound likes a Pro-Am (professional-amateur) Golf Tournament with industry vendors and hobbyists/enthusiasts presenting. Curious if they were side-by-side or separate?
The Harrogate show sound likes a Pro-Am (professional-amateur) Golf Tournament with industry vendors and hobbyists/enthusiasts presenting. Curious if they were side-by-side or separate?
If you are going to sell to the non-enthiusiast you have to have a product that fits the market like the Dual 505/NAD 3020/Wharfey Diamond did 30 years ago (see also Rega, Rotel, etc) in that it is affordable and "good enough". I have some Monitor Audios from that time in the conservatory, though an inexpensive amp and CDP/tablet/CCA they sound great. They are domestically reasonable too. However price is key, for £500 I can get a great TV, a computer, or a smartphone. The music system that sounds as good as or better than a decent car stereo has to compete with these items as a value proposition.
Yes
that too.
Different rooms. The hobbyists were all in one wing of the hotel. Visitors walked round. It was possible to go from trade to hobbyists in the time it takes to cover a 100ft corridor in a hotel.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Here are a few phone pics from the Harrogate show. Apologies for clogging up the thread with them.
I really liked these speakers, and I don't usually get on with horns. I had a chat with the daughter of the man who built them. It's a small family concern and they're built to order. The finish alone costs £3000, so they fall into the category of 'If you've got to ask the price...". I did ask, yours for £40,000. They feature a single 8" driver made by a chap in Germany.
I think these and the Tannoys were my favourite sounds at the show. In any case the music they were playing led to me adding a Max Richter album to my Qobuz favourites.
I saw and heard these horns at the recent Cheshire show. Still not impressed, but the amp had the biggest valves I've ever seen
These were the Sonus Faber lookalikes that I mentioned earlier. They sounded good to these ears. They were playing Kind of Blue when I first arrived.
These were from what I think is a one man band type of company, the speakers were very small, and I think it showed
More horns. They sounded ok, but were playing Brothers In Arms when I visited the room on Saturday, and playing the same album when I visited again on Sunday
The 'new' Tannoys. I liked them a lot. They sounded just a bit 'hifi' with possibly a bit too much bass and treble. They're something I could live with though. The first time I went in they were playing what the demonstrator said was "Pictures at a Window" - the Fritz Reiner, CSO version from the 50s. Plenty of impact, great transient detail. Heat dissipation shouldn't be a problem for the amp they were using.
Finally, for Sunday lunchtime I ordered the beef and Yorkshire pudding in the hotel restaurant. Not what I was expecting, but very tasty.
I really liked these speakers, and I don't usually get on with horns. I had a chat with the daughter of the man who built them. It's a small family concern and they're built to order. The finish alone costs £3000, so they fall into the category of 'If you've got to ask the price...". I did ask, yours for £40,000. They feature a single 8" driver made by a chap in Germany.
I think these and the Tannoys were my favourite sounds at the show. In any case the music they were playing led to me adding a Max Richter album to my Qobuz favourites.
I saw and heard these horns at the recent Cheshire show. Still not impressed, but the amp had the biggest valves I've ever seen
These were the Sonus Faber lookalikes that I mentioned earlier. They sounded good to these ears. They were playing Kind of Blue when I first arrived.
These were from what I think is a one man band type of company, the speakers were very small, and I think it showed
More horns. They sounded ok, but were playing Brothers In Arms when I visited the room on Saturday, and playing the same album when I visited again on Sunday
The 'new' Tannoys. I liked them a lot. They sounded just a bit 'hifi' with possibly a bit too much bass and treble. They're something I could live with though. The first time I went in they were playing what the demonstrator said was "Pictures at a Window" - the Fritz Reiner, CSO version from the 50s. Plenty of impact, great transient detail. Heat dissipation shouldn't be a problem for the amp they were using.
Finally, for Sunday lunchtime I ordered the beef and Yorkshire pudding in the hotel restaurant. Not what I was expecting, but very tasty.