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Wagner Ring Solti Decca CD masterings

Tony L

Tony L

Administrator
I'm currently enjoying finding my way around this work via the original 1984 silver-to-centre West German CD mastering. I've tried the ring before in other forms and never connected with it (e.g. I forced myself through some dreadful sounding Furtwangler vinyl and didn't enjoy the experience at all!), but I'm rather enjoying this.

So, mastering? I've read a lot of negative comments about the first digital issue (the one I have) being hard and thin, but it doesn't sound that way here via the Tannoys, it sounds very good to my ears. It was remastered in 1997 and apparently warmed up a bit, though it was de-hissed/de-noised through the then new-fangled Cedar process which, as usual, apparently stole much of the top end and ambience. I hate de-noising technology, it really is baby out with the bathwater stuff. Anyway, it was redone again in 2012 for a huge luxury set (now out of print), Blu-Ray & book and a budget CD box. Has anyone here compared this new mastering to the 1984 CDs? I get the impression that people like it and seem to think it gets closest to the original vinyl and even beats it in many respects. It appears to be taken from the 1997 digital transfer rather than a fresh mastering as apparently the original tapes are pretty shot, but thus time less buggered-up with Cedar and rather more care taken with EQ. Basically is it worth £30 if one can't really hear a lot wrong with the original CD issue?
 
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I bought Rheingold when it first came out. To my ears it sounded fine. There was some tape hiss, but that didn't worry me at all. I think the other operas in the set that I have may be from the later remastering.

If the Furtwangler was the set on Everest (on around 12 LPs if I remember correctly) then yes, the sound is dreadful. On the other hand I also have the big Solti wooden LP box that Decca released of all the operas plus the Deryck Cooke illustrated talk. That sounds superb.
 
Tony L said:
It appears to be taken from the 1997 digital transfer rather than a fresh mastering as apparently the original tapes are pretty shot, but thus time less buggered-up with Cedar and rather more care taken with EQ.
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I visited Decca's mastering suite to write up the story about the Decca Supercuts for PHF in 1980something. I was asked if I'd like to see anything in the tape library and like a shot I said the Solti/Culshaw Ring - some smiles from the engineers. The master tapes were then in 'don't really want to spool them up' quality with dodgy splices (I was told Sellotape but I think it was an exaggeration) - they were certainly concerned about oxide shedding and physical/chemical deterioration of the tape itself. I suspected that the 1997 digital transfer would be the last time the original masters would be touched.

Interesting dilemma - early CD less than perfectly mastered from a minty master tape or a perfectly mastered digital file from a deteriorating master?
DGP
 
I have the 1997 Solti, it remains my favourite ring despite the recent arrival of the superb 1953 Clemens Krauss set (Thanks Tony).
I think there gets to a time in the life of a master tape when better results can be obtained from a mint original pressing but these are not always obtainable. If done properly digital re-mastering can achieve excellent results, I have many examples of very good vintage recordings.
 
I've got the 1997 Solti Decca CD box set, which sounds fine.

Also have the original Decca Limited Edition 22 LP vinyl wooden, embossed box set, which includes libretti.

Got this from fleaBay a couple of years ago. Looks in great condition. Don't know what it sounds like though, because I don't have a turntable at the moment. This box set now goes for between £200 to £300 quid.

Like a bit of Wagner. Caught the Ring Cycle a few times at the Royal Albert Hall. Just need to get out to Bayreuth in Bavaria to see it properly. Wagner had the Festspielhaus specially designed to perform it.

Somebody told me they booked 10 years in advance to see the Ring Cycle there.

Jack
 
7 years is the current waiting list. We're now at the front but are rejecting ours and waiting with the hope that there'll be a better production coming soon -- apparently, if one rejects the booking one stays at the head of the list :)
For €1200 I want to see something worth seeing (though I'm sure with the likes of Runnicles at the helm it'll sound great).

Apparently Decca made a 24/48 transfer back in 1997 and the tapes fell apart, so there will be no better version than the one on the BR / HRDL unless one has original mint pressings perhaps.

PS Worth a read: https://www.stereophile.com/content/solti-iringi-remasteredagain
https://www.stereophile.com/content/recording-january-2013-wagner-ider-ring-des-nibelungeni
 
lennyw said:
7 years is the current waiting list. We're now at the front but are rejecting ours and waiting with the hope that there'll be a better production coming soon -- apparently, if one rejects the booking one stays at the head of the list :)
For €1200 I want to see something worth seeing (though I'm sure with the likes of Runnicles at the helm it'll sound great).
Click to expand...

Oh right, thanks for that. I couldn't find out how much the tickets were on the website, but this gives me an idea.

Do they just take your bank details, or do you actually pay years in advance?

I better book soonish, otherwise I'll be too old to wield a spear and get on an airplane.

Jack
 
You just need to sign up to receive the ticket application form (which is also online) and then wait for them to send it to you. Only once you're offered tickets will you have to pay, I think it's also possible to pay in a couple of instalments. This usually takes place in September with receipt of invoice towards the end of the year.
Good luck!
 
Back in 1977 we happened through Bayreuth at festival time - I was was not at that time particularly keen on Opera but asked at the box office about tickets, obviously to be told they were sold out - Oh, I said how early do you have to book? Last year said the clerk, with what seemed to be a snigger.
 
lennyw said:
You just need to sign up to receive the ticket application form (which is also online) and then wait for them to send it to you. Only once you're offered tickets will you have to pay, I think it's also possible to pay in a couple of instalments. This usually takes place in September with receipt of invoice towards the end of the year.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

Great thanks very much for your help.

Jack
 
Nic Robinson said:
Is this the one to have? Looks a good price:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Viny...TF8&qid=1499362581&sr=8-1&keywords=solti+ring
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It's a very good price.

The Karajan Ring from a few years later is also very good...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GUKLJJO/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

I've not listened to it for a while, but my memories of the Karajan were that it wasn't as spectacular sounding as the Solti, and the voices were closer to the front of the sound stage. Both are excellent, but on balance I'd go for the Solti.

There's also a version by ENO conducted by Reginald Goodall sung in English, but that seems to be rather expensive these days. Recorded live it was noticeable for slow speeds - on vinyl Rheingold takes 4 LPs rather than the usual 3 for example.
 
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Goodall's is stunning, and preferable to the overly slick Karajan.

The Solti would always be the recommendation I would make to someone as their first ring, but in the end, I think the real wonderful stuff is from Bayreuthe 1955 - 1965. Knappertsbusch, Keilberth, Bohm, amazing singers and an electric atmosphere.
 
Tony L said:
Has anyone here compared this new mastering to the 1984 CDs? I get the impression that people like it and seem to think it gets closest to the original vinyl and even beats it in many respects. It appears to be taken from the 1997 digital transfer rather than a fresh mastering as apparently the original tapes are pretty shot, but thus time less buggered-up with Cedar and rather more care taken with EQ. Basically is it worth £30 if one can't really hear a lot wrong with the original CD issue?
Click to expand...

I have the 1997 and the new luxury version which I bought from Quobuz for not too much. I think it's slightly better than the 1997 version, but can't compare with the 1984 as I don't have it. When the 1997 version came out there was much talk about how there were many details revealed which had previously been concealed. This seemed about right to me, but i was working from memory of what I had heard on LP and earlier cd and was not able to compare.
you should be able to compare for yourself by listening here
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/ri...-philharmoniker-sir-georg-solti/0002894787859
 
I have that Blu-ray disc version too and I used Pavtube or MakeMV (can't remember which) to rip to flac files... but all I could get was one single big flac for each opera! - which is not terribly practical.
 
DVD-Audio Extractor can extract the audio from a huge MakeMKV file and produce individual tracks like you'd find on a CD.
 
Thank you for your help. And with a rainy weekend ahead, I can use the time to investigate.
Cheers!
 
I have the 1984 CDs and the 2014 (?) Blu-Ray. There's not much wrong with the 1984 but I think I give the edge to the Blu-Ray. The single Blu-Ray edition is quite inexpensive considering what you get.

Tim
 
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