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Vinyl trend causes discord

Teddy Ray said:
....... It is inferior in every possible way.....
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Yet another general sweeping opinion touted as fact. :rolleyes:

Actually it's not inferior in every possible way. Many people get more enjoyment from music when played on Vinyl. To them it's the superior format.

Humans listen to music to music to gain an emotional connection or appreciation. The best music replay system is the one any given individual enjoys listening to music through the most. Vinyl provides more musical enjoyment than other formats to a significant number of people. Ergo for them Vinyl is the superior format. QED.


When are people going to understand that simple fact. Just because one may derive satisfaction from the knowledge that their replay system is technically accurate doesn't mean everybody else in the world does, or even cares. For most people in the world (and I think I can safely state that as a fact given the incontestable figures indicating the way people listen to their music) the accuracy of their chosen replay system is very low on their list of priorities when choosing what they listen to music through. They use one single judgement. Which method they personally think sounds best to them and that they derive the most enjoyment from. This is the case for probably 99.9999... % of the worlds population.
 
Greg said:
Ok you don't like physical media, ok you would rather have lots of music and a boom box, but you throw in there that vinyl sounds inferior. It doesn't.[/QUOTE]

In your opinion. For me, it sounds inferior. So, the best thing is for you to continue using it & I, for my part will consign my vinyl rig to history, where it belongs, with my slide rule, steam locomotives, etc, etc,.

Chris
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GTM said:
Yet another general sweeping opinion touted as fact. :rolleyes:

Actually it's not inferior in every possible way. Many people get more enjoyment from music when played on Vinyl. To them it's the superior format.

Humans listen to music to music to gain an emotional connection or appreciation. The best music replay system is the one any given individual enjoys listening to music through the most. Vinyl provides more musical enjoyment than other formats to a significant number of people. Ergo for them Vinyl is the superior format. QED.


When are people going to understand that simple fact. Just because one may derive satisfaction from the knowledge that their replay system is technically accurate doesn't mean everybody else in the world does, or even cares. For most people in the world (and I think I can safely state that as a fact given the incontestable figures indicating the way people listen to their music) the accuracy of their chosen replay system is very low on their list of priorities when choosing what they listen to music through. They use one single judgement. Which method they personally think sounds best to them and that they derive the most enjoyment from. This is the case for probably 99.9999... % of the worlds population.
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you are correct when i play masters to people, most people don't like the cold hard truth of them and want a more romantic version of them....like a vinyl cut or a softer mp3 version.
 
darrylfunk said:
you are correct when i play masters to people, most people don't like the cold hard truth of them and want a more romantic version of them....like a vinyl cut or a softer mp3 version.
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just get the tracking right to begin with. :p (just kidding)

I do enjoy ribbon , tubes, and tape for tracking, and a nice big desk to mix on. that tends to handle the "softening"

(or throwing a tape emulation plugin or anamod on the 2buss) my DAW(Sequoia/Samplitude) has a host of emulation plugins that are outstanding! but playback time I just want all the gear/sonic intrustion out of my way no dirty windows, please!

btw you should check out the thread about measuring your VST Plugins. Some of them do some really cool things!
 
Mescalito said:
Greg said:
Ok you don't like physical media, ok you would rather have lots of music and a boom box, but you throw in there that vinyl sounds inferior. It doesn't.[/QUOTE]

In your opinion. For me, it sounds inferior. So, the best thing is for you to continue using it & I, for my part will consign my vinyl rig to history, where it belongs, with my slide rule, steam locomotives, etc, etc,.

Chris
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Chuckle.
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Teddy Ray said:
just get the tracking right to begin with. :p (just kidding)

I do enjoy ribbon , tubes, and tape for tracking, and a nice big desk to mix on. that tends to handle the "softening"

(or throwing a tape emulation plugin or anamod on the 2buss) my DAW(Sequoia/Samplitude) has a host of emulation plugins that are outstanding! but playback time I just want all the gear/sonic intrustion out of my way no dirty windows, please!

btw you should check out the thread about measuring your VST Plugins. Some of them do some really cool things!
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teddy i beta test loads of vst's for steinberg and a few other companies.

would'nt want murky masters....to much tube/valve thickening and you just get distorted phasey soup....not good.
 
sonddek said:
The aggression towards vinyl-lovers is just the thinly veiled envy of those who missed the boat and can't afford decks and LPs.
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No aggression, Sonddek. And I by no means missed the bus. I have had a decent vinyl rig since 1975. I started with a GL75/some Shure cartridge, then a Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference/Shure V15/SME 2009 & then a LP12/Ittok/Karma->Troika. I still have the Linn kit, but as soon as I have finished ripping the LPs to my NAS, it goes.

Now, the above is not cutting edge, but is still decent kit.

I also have about 1200 - 1300 LPs & about 600 singles/EPs. I Bought my first CDP in the mid 80's. The last LP I bought was Fairport Convention's BBC Sessions, bought the same year as the CDP. To me, it was immediately obvious that good as vinyl could be, it was outclassed in every way by CD.

When I bought my first NAS, I asked the dealer to let me hear a fully tricked out LP12. It was astonishingly good. I could afford to buy it, but why bother?TheNAS beat it in all departments, IMHO.

Regards,

Chris
 
I was at the Munich show last week. Genelec had a Canadian singer called Brook Miller and further guitar accompaniment being miked & played through some of their large monitors.

P1010168.jpg



She might have been quite good but I didn't stay long to listen. The sound was horrible; steely, hard and electronic.

Was this the 'cold hard truth'? Personally I doubt it. Cold & hard certainly. Truth? No. If they'd turned the pa off it would have sounded much more natural and pleasant. It beggars belief to me that people find the sound from these sorts of monitors tolerable. The fact that many people do, explains alot about what else they are prepared to put up with & why.
 
pure sound said:
thats the genelec house sound, not monitors on the whole. :D

That is the chief complaint amongst engineers about them bright/forward(I havent much experience with them, dont know) but again... it isnt a problem with monitors as a whole. .. and i dont think you can make any judgement based on hearing them once, sighted , in a bad environment...

then again Keith loves his , and I respect his opinion very much.
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Dik Dolan said:
<Not an advert from the future/>

For sale, unplayed, un-opened flac of 2017 original lineup of boyz band #37. £50 ono.
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I buy music for the music, not for the artefact it comes on. I could not really care if, say, my copy of The Velvet Underground's 1st album, complete with unpeeled banana, is worth a fortune. I do care that I now have on my NAS a digital copy which I can access at any time & which is sonically superior.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
I buy music for the music, not for the artefact it comes on. I could not really care if, say, my copy of The Velvet Underground's 1st album, complete with unpeeled banana, is worth a fortune. I do care that I now have on my NAS a digital copy which I can access at any time & which is sonically superior.

Chris
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that is no consideration for me, either. i buy music to listen. thats what it is for.

collectors sort of piss me off, actually.
 
pure sound said:
I was at the Munich show last week. Genelec had a Canadian singer called Brook Miller and further guitar accompaniment being miked & played through some of their large monitors.

P1010168.jpg



She might have been quite good but I didn't stay long to listen. The sound was horrible; steely, hard and electronic.

Was this the 'cold hard truth'? Personally I doubt it. Cold & hard certainly. Truth? No. If they'd turned the pa off it would have sounded much more natural and pleasant. It beggars belief to me that people find the sound from these sorts of monitors tolerable. The fact that many people do, explains alot about what else they are prepared to put up with & why.
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There are precisely four major errors in the setup (that I can see) from the photo alone.

We know nothing of the adeptness of the mixing, the in-room EQ, the slapback time of the room, the effect of the dolly on the Genelecs. Also, you are not factoring what looks to be a hard plastered highly reflective wall stage left, right and upstage in a venue with probably no acoustic treatment and probably (looking at the stage arrangement) almost no attention staging and probably a small audience.

To form a judgement about the speakers based on this alone requires a tremendous leap.

Genelecs are flat when put in a properly treated room like a studio. for live work they need to go in a room with similar treatments and assumptions about the space they go into. Genelecs are not designed by deaf people.
 
Purite Audio said:
I have some direct drive turntables, and one of my phono stages is a super quiet battery solid state design, if you then use a neutral cartridge with a flat frequency response you can achieve an 'almost' Cd like presentation.
Although I don't believe most vinyl users particularly want their vinyl to sound cd like!
Keith.
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Which one would that be, then?

What you are saying is that it might be possible for a vinyl rig to approach the levels of performance which are easily acieved by a £30 Tesco DVD player playing a CD.

Chris
 
PsB said:
Chris,
If you can't see the disconnects between the statements in posts #23 (can't listen to the music if it's on LP or CD) and #68 (if the music is good the medium doesn't matter) and the contradictions within your post #77 quoted above, then I give up. It doesn't matter much anyway.
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No disconnect.

First of all, you are not quoting one of my posts. Personally, my position is that I will not listen to a LP or CD if I have the choice of streaming it. If I do not have anything better to listen on, I will listen on a medium wave am radio, but listen I will.

I was agreeing with Teddy's dislike of physical media. That, after all, was the thrust of his post.

Chris
 
dave thomas said:
By listening to the music.
I am not in the habit of listening to Dark side or to lead out grooves at high volume.
In the interest of "science" I have got hold of the Lp and sacd/cd.
You are quite correct the vinyl does not show up the ticket to ride. However I had to turn the CD up to a much higher volume than i would normally listen to hear trr.Conversely the vinyl in spite of being quite old sounded much more alive than the CD.
On Time the alarms sounded as if they had been wound up fully - on the CD they seemed flatter by comparison. The background percussion had more attack the sound stage was bigger and deeper, individual instruments and voices are separated out more.
The s/n ratio of CD is not vastly superior. Agreed it is often better but it depends on the quality and cleanliness of the vinyl. I have often compared vinyl to CD with friends and they have been unable to recognise vinyl from excessive background nose. They have invariably preferred the music on vinyl.
CD is a lower resolution to vinyl - it has to be as it is down sampled from the original hi-res master (otherwise it would be a much bigger file size), which could be digital or analogue.
But as you say you enjoy the convenience of digital - what does it matter - you are happy to listen to your streamer, fine. I don't want to limit my listening to only digital.
I am currently listening to Basie Jam #2 it sounds fantastic I just cannot get this quality of sound on CD.
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QED. THe digital version is able to resolve more information than a good (I presume you have a decent setup) vinyl rig.

But still people insist that vinyl is capable of more resolution than digital.

Chris
 
Yes, a strange choice of demo by Genelec. The speakers seemed wholly unsuitable.
Someone obviously thought it was a good idea :rolleyes:
 
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