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Valve Phono Stage advice

abbydog said:
I don't think the Techie would sound at all lacking through a good phono stage - you'd be surprised at what a top stage can do for even modest decks. Look what people put lumbering rumbling 301s through. Think I'd take a Techie and a good stage over one of those any day. Last time I heard a Techie in anger was in a club where what appeared to be a bog standard one with an Ortofon produced prodigious bass. I wondered at the time how many audiophile decks would have coped with those spls. At any rate, few of the 'approved' turntables ever see a really good phono stage and fewer still a really good valve stage. I say give it a go.

Is the new Techie really better than the tried and trusted one that almost created a musical genre? Remain to be convinced, but then I don't use one.
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I don't know why but the term 'Techie' really annoys me. Maybe its because it sounds somewhat childish and geeky. The standard, classic, bog-standard Technics is a one trick pony. It has great speed, drive and keeps a tempo like no other turntable I know. But it is dark sounding, shut in (very narrow sound stage), lacks resolution and delicacy. I find it oafish and uncouth sounding. Initially, it can sound impressive but this novelty soon wears off. Anyone who is familiar with the sound of high end analogue (not everyone is and I would suggest this is the case with the vast majority of owners of the classic/old style Technics) will soon realise the classic, unmodified Technics is well off the mark.

The new model may well look like the old on the surface but in reality it is a completely different design. And this is reflected in its far superior sonic performance. All of the professional and user reviews confirm this to be the case.

The sound of the standard/classic Technics is dull, lackluster, shut in and restricted. If you compare a Technics side by side with something like a Michell Gyro, using the same cartridge and phono stage with a well recorded/mastered piece of vinyl, the difference in the quality of sonic performance is like night and day.

Personally, I would take a Rega RP3 over and above a standard/original Technics any day of the week. Using a a £1k valve phono stage with a standard/original Technics is a complete waste/misallocation of funds in my opinion. If improved sound quality performance is the goal, the OP would be much better off using the funds to replace it with the new Technics GR @ £1300 or a similarly priced turntable from Michell, Notts Analogue or Rega and carry on using the phono stage in his Technics pre.
 
Linnovice said:
Marvin, I don't suppose you live anywhere near Colchester? I'd be very interested in an a/b comparison.
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No, I am on the South Coast I'm afraid. Please do not take offence at my comments, I am just trying to be frank and honest in my opinion. I have lots of experience of the Technics, having owned various models since 1992. I know its sonic character well, its strengths and its weaknesses.

In my opinion, which is based on many thousands of hours listening experience, you will never achieve what I would describe as 'analogue magic' with a standard, unmodified, classic version of the Technics. This is regardless of the cart or phono stage used. A beautiful, high-fidelity listening experience is never achieved. It is just very matter of fact. It does its job and that is it. These days, I much prefer listening to well recorded and mastered digital via my CD player/DAC than I do vinyl via the Technics.
 
Hi Marvin, no offence taken. I will say this though. I swapped from a Linn LP12/OL1/Lingo combination to the SL1200 quite deliberately after quite a few hours of a/b listening. Also, when taking into account the cost of the Linn setup against the Technics I psychologically didn't want to believe my ears. But, in the end, I just found the Technics better IMHO. I don't deny the Linn was 'musical' but it has its own character of musical. The Technics, to me, sounded more open, clean and revealing. I was hearing things in the music I had not noticed before. Bearing in mind it's from the same cartridge as well, to my ears the Technics edged the Linn out.
Getting back to the original question. I listen through Aktive Linn Kaber speakers which are unforgiving of poor reproduction (and amplification). I'm finding that the combination of 2M Bronze through Kaber can, on some recordings, be on the 'bright' side of the spectrum. Hence my question about a valve Phono Stage. It was suggested that a good quality solid state may also perform better. An A.N.T. Kora T3 Ltd in point. After reading the reviews and various publications I've decided to investigate further and ordered one over the weekend. Does anyone have any experience with this product?
 
thebiglebowski said:
I'm not sure what a valve phono would give you unless you are looking for that typical warm sound.

Valve stages tend to be expensive because they have a valve rectified power supply which suits itself to phono because it isn't having to drive a lot of current.

One I had recently was a Remton 8382 and was an absolute dream with the Decca Gold it isn't valve rectified but does have a seperate PSU and at £450 new I think it would very hard to beat.

I'm not a fan of Tron but the convergence is a good MM stage and uses an internal step up for MC, as it's only £100 more you are only getting £100 worth of SUT.
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A good valve phono stage should not sound warm. It should be neutral and natural sounding, plus a little less fatiguing than that of an equivalently priced solid state phono stage.

Very few valve phono stages have valve rectified power supplies. That is because they are more costly to implement properly, but the main reason is reliability. Valve rectifiers tend to lose emission after a few years which decreases performance so these require more frequent servicing. A properly implemented solid state rectified power supply will not require any maintenance and should last the life of the amplifier and with a consistent level of performance.

The SUTs in the Tron Convergence are the same as fitted into the base model Tron Seven phono stage. These were also fitted into the Noteworthy Phonote 11 years ago and these are very good step up transformers. For the record I subsidises these SUTs in the Tron Convergence (MC version) to keep the price to £1000.
 
At c.£1250 second hand consider the Allnic 1201. It loses very little in comparison to the Paradise that replaced it and (from memory obvs) on some records I prefer it.
 
I have used a few different phono stages with my technics turntables 1200 / 1210, I liked the trichord Dino and never connected PSU set up.
The project tube box, upgraded Cambridge, graham slee and creek phono amps did not give the same musical dynamics as the Dino.
My ears are a bit battered from years as an engineer, but there its a sound I like, probably like many things we all have different tastes and ideals.
Best thing to do is listen to as many options as you can, before buying, good luck
 
I agree that exposure to a variety of phono stages would be advantageous but in reality difficult to achieve. It would be good to have access to a variety of models but unless a dealer would be prepare to supply a few on loan it won't happen.
I took delivery of the A.N.T. KORA T3 unit yesterday. First impressions are good. It appears well made and the sound coming out is impressive. They recommend running it in for 7-10 days so it's very early yet. There is a small knob on the back to 'fine tune' the DC operating point. Whatever that is ��. I will start experimenting at the end of next week.
Thank you all for your advice, I'll keep posting as things progress.
 
Linnovice said:
I agree that exposure to a variety of phono stages would be advantageous but in reality difficult to achieve. It would be good to have access to a variety of models but unless a dealer would be prepare to supply a few on loan it won't happen.
I took delivery of the A.N.T. KORA T3 unit yesterday. First impressions are good. It appears well made and the sound coming out is impressive. They recommend running it in for 7-10 days so it's very early yet. There is a small knob on the back to 'fine tune' the DC operating point. Whatever that is ��. I will start experimenting at the end of next week.
Thank you all for your advice, I'll keep posting as things progress.
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The ANT Kora stages are very good. Alex Nikitin was the chief designer for Creek as well as doing work for other companies. His ANT4066 mods for Nakamichi Dragon tape decks are legendary. The reputation is well deserved, as I am the happy owner of an ANT modded Dragon.

Alex moved away from Uxbridge about 2 years ago to a new career in Cheshire and so no longer has time to devote to audio - hence the fact that there are no more ANT Kora stages being made. Enjoy it.
 
Linnovice said:
Hi Marvin, no offence taken. I will say this though. I swapped from a Linn LP12/OL1/Lingo combination to the SL1200 quite deliberately after quite a few hours of a/b listening. Also, when taking into account the cost of the Linn setup against the Technics I psychologically didn't want to believe my ears. But, in the end, I just found the Technics better IMHO. I don't deny the Linn was 'musical' but it has its own character of musical. The Technics, to me, sounded more open, clean and revealing. I was hearing things in the music I had not noticed before. Bearing in mind it's from the same cartridge as well, to my ears the Technics edged the Linn out.
Getting back to the original question. I listen through Aktive Linn Kaber speakers which are unforgiving of poor reproduction (and amplification). I'm finding that the combination of 2M Bronze through Kaber can, on some recordings, be on the 'bright' side of the spectrum. Hence my question about a valve Phono Stage. It was suggested that a good quality solid state may also perform better. An A.N.T. Kora T3 Ltd in point. After reading the reviews and various publications I've decided to investigate further and ordered one over the weekend. Does anyone have any experience with this product?
Click to expand...

I have a 1210 mk2 but it's not standard, four key mods and an sme 309 arm and I'm getting a wonderfully open, dynamic articulate sound with real subtlety.

I think the dark and shut in sound is mostly down to the rubber mat and poor internal wiring of the arm but that's just my opinion.
 
Linnovice said:
I agree that exposure to a variety of phono stages would be advantageous but in reality difficult to achieve. It would be good to have access to a variety of models but unless a dealer would be prepare to supply a few on loan it won't happen.
I took delivery of the A.N.T. KORA T3 unit yesterday. First impressions are good. It appears well made and the sound coming out is impressive. They recommend running it in for 7-10 days so it's very early yet. There is a small knob on the back to 'fine tune' the DC operating point. Whatever that is ��. I will start experimenting at the end of next week.
Thank you all for your advice, I'll keep posting as things progress.
Click to expand...

Colchester?
If you're likely to drive past Harlow in the near future, you could try my Whest TWO. I'm unlikely to be using it for a few weeks. (not valve obviously)

D
 
I'd recommend an Allnic H-1200. Had one that I enjoyed and cost £600.

Kept it until i found a heavily modified one for not much more. Compared them side by side and the modified one is much better. Now for sale on the wam at £620 (bargain) as I'm downgrading. Includes details of all the mods and high end components used in the upgrade.

Haven't got round to advertising it here, yet :)
 
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