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USB Cable Poll: Redux

What's your experience/opinion of USB cables for audio?

  • I auditioned multiple USB cables and found they differed

    Votes: 32 21.5%

  • I auditioned multiple USB cables and found them identical

    Votes: 34 22.8%

  • I haven't auditioned USB cables and believe they won't differ

    Votes: 63 42.3%

  • I haven't auditioned USB cables but suspect they will differ

    Votes: 20 13.4%
  • Total voters
    149
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Vital said:
If Einstein had just sat back and taken the Newton's pronouncements as an immutable truth he'd have made less progress than he did, don't you think?
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Einstein used his brain. That's rather different than usb cables, even the fancy ones.
 
Max, perhaps I picked the wrong fight - but whereas I'd be staggered to hear a difference in a digital cable, I'd be less so on things like DACs which as far as I can work out you still assert are all the same unless broken, or voiced for particular effect. And yes, I'll be writing up what we find on this.
 
Sumo said:
Einstein used his brain. That's rather different than usb cables, even the fancy ones.
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I agree that it's highly unlikely from my understanding of these things.

100 years ago most highly intelligent scientists believed Newton to be correct. No need to think or experiment further then. Yes, Einstein had a brain to think it through in ways you (I assume) and I (certainly) can't. That leaves me with experimentation.

I think many of us are in "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" territory.
 
Vital said:
Max, perhaps I picked the wrong fight - but whereas I'd be staggered to hear a difference in a digital cable, I'd be less so on things like DACs which as far as I can work out you still assert are all the same unless broken, or voiced for particular effect. And yes, I'll be writing up what we find on this.
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I've not been too vocal in DAC threads because I wouldn't hold as strong an opinion on them as I would on digital cables. FWIW, I agree with the likes of Keith and others that say once properly designed, there really shouldn't be much difference between them.

It's worth baring in mind that the Foosters mission is to get people listening to these things as much as possible so that expectation bias is given it's opportunity.
This is why item keeps droning on about home demos, which while a good idea with a lot of things, is a pointless exercise with many other things, especially cables, though perhaps not DACs as much.
 
ItemAudio said:
That's not the least of such a poll's troubles: mainly the sample size is much too small to be meaningful.

But even if it's only a microcosm snapshot it does suggest that a third of PFM members - not just a weird outlier cult - who've tried USB cables found they made a difference. I think it would be rude to call them crazy: it's not that small a minority.

PS: In fact, the figure currently stands at 40%.
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But 72% either know or attest to the fact they don't make a difference.

You're on a loser here, item, spend some time jazzing up that website. I'll help you if I can.

Also worth trying is the Russ Andrews ploy, whereby you get taken to the ASA for making an outrageous claim, produce an unreadable reponse, then feature in every forum for years afterwards whenever the word "cable" appears in a thread. Brilliant free advertising.

I'll happily report the ad when it appears.
 
maxflinn said:
It's worth baring in mind that the Foosters mission is to get people listening to these things as much as possible so that expectation bias is given it's opportunity. This is why item keeps droning on about home demos, which while a good idea with a lot of things, is a pointless exercise with many other things, especially cables, though perhaps not DACs as much.
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The point of a home loan is that it's the only way to decide anything about anything - particularly speakers. I can't think of a fairer way to offer customer service.

It's even try before buy: not a 'money back' scam. If it's not good enough to keep, send it back. If it's good, buy it. I'm totally prepared for the product to speak for me - even USB cables.

Quite a risk if it's all foo, isn't it?
 
The second poll has attracted more votes than the first.

Interesting that despite the protests of a vocal minority, the 'do matter/don't matter' divide among listeners is currently almost 50/50.
 
ItemAudio said:
The point of a home loan is that it's the only way to decide anything about anything - particularly speakers. I can't think of a fairer way to offer customer service.

It's even try before buy: not a 'money back' scam. If it's not good enough to keep, send it back. If it's good, buy it. I'm totally prepared for the product to speak for me - even USB cables.

Quite a risk if it's all foo, isn't it?
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This conversation expanding will do you no favours.

It's the weekend, let's leave it be and listen to some tunes :)
 
ItemAudio said:
Wrong on so many levels . . . you're defining 'disposition to belief' as gullibility which is contra-indicated by a willingness to experiment and change viewpoint on the basis of evidence and experience.

The prejudice against digital cables - or, charitably, over-reliance on theory - makes people lazy about doing their own 'research'.

Without the background of reality, of course such a tiny ad-hoc poll could be statistically interpreted in any number of ways. As a snapshot of PFM sentiment the inferences are unambiguous.
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I'm not defining anything at all, I am purely going on the questions asked and the data returned, it is you who is making further assumptions about reasons and occurrence. If you didn't ask a question directly and if there is no statistical baseline to work against you cannot define a change.

You would need to ask respondents which group they were in beforehand, then and only then can you perform a post hoc to analyze the change arising from testing.

You see that really is the difference between you and me. I have no dog in this fight at all. I am utterly pragmatic regarding cables. When i can hear a difference blind, and it's an improvement I'll buy it. Until anyone can prove a difference blind I'll chose to err on the side of differences not existing. It's a purely logical stance and open to change under weight of evidence at any time.
 
sq225917 said:
I am utterly pragmatic regarding cables. When i can hear a difference blind, and it's an improvement I'll buy it. Until anyone can prove a difference blind I'll chose to err on the side of differences not existing. It's a purely logical stance and open to change under weight of evidence at any time.
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A perfectly sensible position. Well said.
 
sq225917 said:
You see that really is the difference between you and me. I have no dog in this fight at all. I am utterly pragmatic regarding cables. When i can hear a difference blind, and it's an improvement I'll buy it. Until anyone can prove a difference blind I'll chose to err on the side of differences not existing. It's a purely logical stance and open to change under weight of evidence at any time.
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Your stance is not only illogical, it's flat contradictory: your views and purchases are based on whether you can hear a positive difference - so not about the 'weight of evidence' at all.

Blind tests have shown subjects unable to differentiate between amplifiers - you don't believe amplifiers differ, either?

You're actually not that different from most of us: you're a pragmatic subjectivist. You're just a bit louder than average.
 
Hiding to nothing, item, come on board and get that website sorted. You're wasting time - and money - with these silly polls and fuzzy arguments.
 
Come on people buy from Item Audio with confidence. I bought a Supra USB cable part of Items catalogue (but not from Item) and it really made no difference to the sound of a Maplins cable of the same length 3m, £11 vs £40. The Supra enjoys the much vaunted separating of power and signal too.

Go on treat yourself it looks much more suited to the job
 
ItemAudio said:
Your stance is not only illogical, it's flat contradictory: your views and purchases are based on whether you can hear a positive difference - so not about the 'weight of evidence' at all.

Blind tests have shown subjects unable to differentiate between amplifiers - you don't believe amplifiers differ, either?

You're actually not that different from most of us: you're a pragmatic subjectivist. You're just a bit louder than average.
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Some people make an issue of ad hominem
 
We don't sell Supra USB cables.

Maybe you've got a really good DAC, a really bad system, really pointy or totally cloth ears - I've no way of knowing. Your verdict on that cable in your system is incontestable. You're dead right.

But the pro-USB figures are rising . . .
 
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