turntables with 12" arms that don't cost a fortune?

[Mike Reed]

The Ace Anna.

I don't really buy into the notion that machines can detect emotion in source material, and am struggling also with your comparison of the V and SBLs.

I've seen pictures of a 12" arm on a 30/2, so anything is possible - if not necessarily desirable.

Just my take, James. Of course machines can't detect emotion, but they sure as Hell can convey it from the vinyl to one's ears, assuming other bits in the chain are simpatico.

I had SBLs for a while with 52/135s, and they were excellent, bur tonally cool; I may well have had ProAc Response 3s at the time, which are anything but cool, and that might have had a bearing on my impression. The Five I had for 14 years was lovely, but definitely not tonally warm, either with Clavis, Helikon (understandable) or K Black Goldline. I would hazard a guess that the Orbe it was on may have had a touch more inherent warmth that an SME deck, but that's purely a guess.

 

[Mike Reed]

Mike, no matter how much the T-Rex begs do not let him near your turntable unless you want a new cartridge and tone arm. They are known to be reckless at the best of times.

Louballoo

Don't worry, Lou, I'll maintain the Status Quo. (Think it was they who played a concert at my college in the very early seventies).

 

[Blzebub]

Just my take, James. Of course machines can't detect emotion, but they sure as Hell can convey it from the vinyl to one's ears, assuming other bits in the chain are simpatico.

I had SBLs for a while with 52/135s, and they were excellent, bur tonally cool; I may well have had ProAc Response 3s at the time, which are anything but cool, and that might have had a bearing on my impression. The Five I had for 14 years was lovely, but definitely not tonally warm, either with Clavis, Helikon (understandable) or K Black Goldline. I would hazard a guess that the Orbe it was on may have had a touch more inherent warmth that an SME deck, but that's purely a guess.

I think the "emotion" bit is in the brain of the listener, and the function of an ideal replay device is to be as faithful as possible to the source material. Nothing added, nothing taken away.

Have you heard a 30/V? I ask because the sound really defies description. Warmness and coolness, whatever those words might mean, doesn't come into it, and neither does tracing distortion, the subject of the thread, AFAICT.

 

[Mike Reed]

I think the "emotion" bit is in the brain of the listener, and the function of an ideal replay device is to be as faithful as possible to the source material. Nothing added, nothing taken away.

Have you heard a 30/V? I ask because the sound really defies description. Warmness and coolness, whatever those words might mean, doesn't come into it, and neither does tracing distortion, the subject of the thread, AFAICT.

Can't agree there, James, or all cart's etc. would sound the same

into the same amplification/transducer chain. Interpretation of that info. is what's exciting.

No, I haven't heard the 30. I can't quite fathom this, but a chap I know in Peterborough bought a 30/V and simply couldn't get on with it. He now has a 20/3 with V and after expensive LFD silver cables in and to the arm, he's much more of a happy bunny. He did come from a Kuzma background, though.

I have to say that if Keith's (Purite) V12 had been up for sale 6 months later I would have bought it (this was 2012, I think). I thought this was the arm to have, being conditioned to the V. Don't think I would have been disappointed !

 

[Blzebub]

Can't agree there, James, or all cart's etc. would sound the same into the same amplification/transducer chain. Interpretation of that info. is what's exciting.

The reason why they don't sound all the same is because they are not ideal.

God knows what your friend in Peterborough was up to, but it takes all sorts.

 

[Mike Reed]

God knows what your friend in Peterborough was up to, but it takes all sorts.

He said that it failed to impart any emotion into his music; it was just mechanical, albeit flawless as far as detail etc. was concerned.. He was using a Collibri (or Frog, maybe), which was gilding the lily a bit i.m.o., but he was very disappointed. I must admit, I was surprised that he was adamant about going the SME route after a Kuzma. He has superb partnering kit and dedicated mains, too.

I think the brain adjusts, and by the time his 20/3 was up and running (and he wasn't wild about that, either !) he'd become accustomed. The costly cables just improved on what had become a new base, as it were.

 

[Blzebub]

He said that it failed to impart any emotion into his music; it was just mechanical, albeit flawless as far as detail etc. was concerned.

I have read this sort of thing before. It's total cobblers. Turntables don't impart emotion, for pretty obvious reasons. What most of them impart is coloration, people get used to this, and when it goes away they feel disappointed.

 

[I.D.C.]

He said that it failed to impart any emotion into his music; it was just mechanical, albeit flawless as far as detail etc. was concerned.. He was using a Collibri (or Frog, maybe), which was gilding the lily a bit i.m.o., but he was very disappointed. I must admit, I was surprised that he was adamant about going the SME route after a Kuzma. He has superb partnering kit and dedicated mains, too.

I think the brain adjusts, and by the time his 20/3 was up and running (and he wasn't wild about that, either !) he'd become accustomed. The costly cables just improved on what had become a new base, as it were.

There is a big difference between the 20 & 30. Both have the same sonic sound call it the SME sound. But the 30 digs deeper with more punch weight to the sound. So maybe you friend has a hearing problem

 

[merlin]

I have to say that if Keith's (Purite) V12 had been up for sale 6 months later I would have bought it (this was 2012, I think). I thought this was the arm to have, being conditioned to the V. Don't think I would have been disappointed !

I'd have to say the V12 is IME a very special arm and the results I achieved were comfortably the best I had experienced. Thoroughly recommended.

 

[Purité Audio]

The V12 was very nicely made , unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to compare it to the V on the same turntable with the same cartridge.
Using a 12" Triplanar at the moment and that too works well and sounds great .
Keith.