Del monaco
Del Monaco
Yep...it’s a question of balance and how it sounds in your own set up.
Turning me DAC into a streamer
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John_73
pfm Member
The thing is, if you actually stop and break down what is actually inside an ‘audiophile’ streamer (something many seemingly don’t stop to think about), it’s a mini computer, a linear power supply, and extra pcb real-estate necessary to accommodate whatever screen and controls plus socketry is employed. The actual processing part of the streamer is likely no bigger than the Pi. In fact an audiophile streamer is likely ‘noisier’ than a Pi! A well designed SMPS can be quieter, and doesn’t give out the radiated magnetic field of a larger mains transformer. The extra circuitry to accommodate the spacing out of the rear panel sockets in a streamer can also act as antennae (in lesser designs), inviting the possibility of further rf noise into the circuitry. I prefer the compactness of the Pi, and the fact the software is constantly under revision and has far less chance of suddenly becoming obsolete.
But as ever, buy whatever makes one happy at the end of the day, and increases one’s enjoyment of the music
But as ever, buy whatever makes one happy at the end of the day, and increases one’s enjoyment of the music
Del monaco
Del Monaco
And it’s not a given that a linear power supply makes a difference. It has its supporters and its detractors. Whenever a product gets this kind of response I leave well alone.The thing is, if you actually stop and break down what is actually inside an ‘audiophile’ streamer (something many seemingly don’t stop to think about), it’s a mini computer, a linear power supply, and extra pcb real-estate necessary to accommodate whatever screen and controls plus socketry is employed. The actual processing part of the streamer is likely no bigger than the Pi. In fact an audiophile streamer is likely ‘noisier’ than a Pi! A well designed SMPS can be quieter, and doesn’t give out the radiated magnetic field of a larger mains transformer. The extra circuitry to accommodate the spacing out of the rear panel sockets in a streamer can also act as antennae (in lesser designs), inviting the possibility of further rf noise into the circuitry. I prefer the compactness of the Pi, and the fact the software is constantly under revision and has far less chance of suddenly becoming obsolete.
But as ever, buy whatever makes one happy at the end of the day, and increases one’s enjoyment of the music
John_73
pfm Member
Exactly. I can understand buying a streamer that looks neat/stylish, and does away with all the extras one might need to complete a Pi setup (if not using its USB output), but have to groan when anybody says a dedicated streamer will outperform it. How? Why? No answers. Just 'because' it's 'audiophile'... innit!
Ian Austen
pfm Member
I used to think the same way as well - it's all just ones and zeros - a huge vat of snake oil!
Until I took the time to compare and listen. In a way I wish I hadn't. Closed mind = closed wallet...
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Some hear a difference.Some don’t. You make your choices.I used to think the same way as well - it's all just ones and zeros - a huge vat of snake oil!
Until I took the time to compare and listen. In a way I wish I hadn't. Closed mind = closed wallet...
Ian Austen
pfm Member
Absolutelty - there is no wrong or right, only what works for you. I have issues with interconnect cables but have tried to have an open mind. I can detect differences but in most cases have difficulties in telling if there's an improvement or not and for me, cannot justify expensive cables. However I would never dream of telling people who get pleasure from buying these that they are wrong. I initially thought the same about digital transports but to me the differences are a huge magnitude of difference to interconnect cables and very easy to hear. Other peoples mileage will vary but at least I have found out for myself.
What does tend to get my goat though is a closed mind attitude where people think they are so right, they are not interested in hearing other opinions or better still, finding out for themselves by listening. They always ask for proof. Flat earthers and antivaxers come to mind.
Ian Austen
pfm Member
I'd like to make it clear I was not making any aspersions on Naim/Linn/Exposure devotees in my above post.
John_73
pfm Member
I used to think the same way as well - it's all just ones and zeros - a huge vat of snake oil!
Until I took the time to compare and listen. In a way I wish I hadn't. Closed mind = closed wallet...
That’s implying those that don’t go in for ‘audiophile’ streamers have closed minds... And I don’t subscribe to it’s just ones and zeroes. I do however subscribe to the laws of physics and common sense. Amazing how audiophiles are still applying (and marketeers and dealers taking full advantage of it) analogue ‘feel good’ add-ons and buzz words, to digital engineering. The steaming ‘problem’ has been long solved, and cheaply these days, so naturally it has to sound better with a heavy aluminium chassis, ‘large’ power supply, chunky connectors etc etc etc.
Thank gawd audiophiles are not in charge of digital standards, or we’d never have had printers that can accurately print colours via cheap usb cables, TVs that can display 4K UHD content accurately & repeatedly with standard hdmi cables and so forth...
miktec
retired
Having used RPi set ups featuring various HATs for a few years now I was quite amazed to discover today that the USB output is actually not that bad ... not bad at all in fact.
Could have saved myself a few bob
Ian Austen
pfm Member
Not at all. However saying there is no difference and proclaiming products as snake oil without bothering to actually listen, does fall into that category.
It's clear you haven't heard a compelling difference to make it worthwhile to consider it a worthwhile upgrade. Could you share which products you auditioned drew you to that conclusion?
VTA
pfm Member
If you are looking for an easy way to get Tidal to your DAC you might want to check this out: https://www.tonepublications.com/review/andover-audio-songbird-hi-res-music-streamer/
Not Roon Ready/certified (yet - but sounds like its the plan). I use a wireless set up with an Auralic Aries Mini and it has worked well, would expect this to be similar.
Not Roon Ready/certified (yet - but sounds like its the plan). I use a wireless set up with an Auralic Aries Mini and it has worked well, would expect this to be similar.
John_73
pfm Member
I don't need to. Why don't I need to? because 1) In this instance I very much trust measurements, particularly for something as simple as a digital streamer (and not even a DAC to boot, just transferring the digital information and nothing more), and 2) I use a well-sorted CD transport often and use that as a control to see if the other inputs are sounding as they should. Which they are. Zero difference. Perhaps you can explain to me EXACTLY how your transport is better than a Pi4 that's working as as it should, in terms that don't turn into an audiophile cliche 'veils lifting' type word salad? How does your streamer improve an already perfect transfer of digital information from a hard drive to a DAC?
Salamander
pfm Member
Can I ask what everyone using these Pi's how they control them?
VTA post link above looks a bargain, but it only has optical out, how does this compare to coax and usb.
VTA post link above looks a bargain, but it only has optical out, how does this compare to coax and usb.
cctaylor
pfm Member
Most pi software packages are controlled by apps on a phone or tablet. I'm using PiCorePlayer and LMS and can use either the native LMS interface or the Material Skin plugin via the browser on my phone or tablet. Packages such as Volumio and Hifiberry have similar arrangements.
Optical should be okay but AFAIK you are limited to 24/92khz as your highest resolution streams. Of course this may not be a problem for you.
Optical should be okay but AFAIK you are limited to 24/92khz as your highest resolution streams. Of course this may not be a problem for you.
slavedata
pfm Member
I use the free squeezer app on my phone. Emulates the SBT screen and provides full control. More expensive apps (couple of quid) give details on music I believe I've never bothered as Squeezer does all I need.
miktec
retired
I think this may just be a limitation of certain configurations rather than Optical per se.
I can play 24/192 from my Mac via the built in output over Optical and my DAC recognises it as 192 fine.
AFAIK my IQAudio digihat also supports 192 over optical output, although I haven't bothered trying it.