To upgrade LP12 or not to upgrade LP12? That is the question.
- Thread starter Spider
- Start date
jimification
pfm Member
Regarding Valhalla, Lingo and Cirkus: I would say that if you fit the cirkus you will miss some bass. If you then add the Lingo, you will find this adds the bass back in (but better). So, in my opinion, Cirkus with Valhalla is a bit "thin" sounding and I suspect this is why some prefer the pre-cirkus sound.
Hi Torsten
Nice to see you back on pfm too!
Interesting story re Willi Bauer. I'll PM you regarding your questions.
Kind regards.
John.
Nice to see you back on pfm too!
Interesting story re Willi Bauer. I'll PM you regarding your questions.
Kind regards.
John.
Hey John, nice to see you !
Was an awesome project back in 2007, really great..
I told Willi Bauer about my sandwich layer constructed Sole subchassis 2 weeks ago,
visiting him in his shop in Munich as his DPS is also a sandwhich construction, and a very nicely made one imho.
He said: 'ah, you have a Kore plagiat'
I said: '...a what ?!'
It was him who told me Linn released a sandwhich layer alloy-wood-alloy subchassis lately called Kore.
I told him I got that thing in since 7 years now and I'd rather dare to say Linn has a Sole plagiat, not vice versa....
Back home I opened the Linn homepage to read something like: 'Three parts are bonded together using a special Linn-specified adhesive '
...I almost aspirated my coffee, I swear..
Anyways, to stay on topic a bit, you have pretty much quite a bit more experience on the LP12 than I have,
not sure on how the LP12 runs with the Vahalla, is it necessary to go for Lingo straight?
Same for Circus kit, I remember I had to buy one as my centre bearing was damaged,
so going for Circus was a no-brainer.
And the Circus sounded better than my damaged bearing, but of course I lack the comparison intact old bearing vs. Circus kit.
I was told it is a 'must' and took it that way by then, but...well..
Sole is still the biggest and - to me essential- step ahead with the LP12.
Do you have any available still and how much are they ?
My idea is, he might throw in a Sole now and be happy just enjoying music w/o spending 2000 bucks possibly ?
As a tangent. I moved from an LP12/Lingo1/Aro to a Well Tempered Simplex, bought new, sold 2nd hand and am now at a much better level....
I don't hanker after any upgrades nor face expensive maintenance.
It's a great cheap (relatively) option, hope you don't mind the suggestion.
Timmer
I don't hanker after any upgrades nor face expensive maintenance.
It's a great cheap (relatively) option, hope you don't mind the suggestion.
Timmer
dave thomas
pfm Member
I had 2 LP12s for about 20 years, naim amps etc. Gradually upgraded the 2nd one - Cirkus, Lingo, motor etc. Ekos ii, supex, troika, various ortfons, ended up with a Jubilee.
Eventually started to wonder why I played records less often.
About 10 years ago decided to have a listen to alternatives one of which was the Orbe fitted with an Ekos, for a better comparison.
I preferred the Orbe to the Linn. Other TTs I had direct comparisons with were the WT Amadeus and Roksan Xerxes both, I thought, bettered the Linn (fully serviced by Linn dealers several times).
I eventually bit the bullet and got rid of the whole system.
Eventually started to wonder why I played records less often.
About 10 years ago decided to have a listen to alternatives one of which was the Orbe fitted with an Ekos, for a better comparison.
I preferred the Orbe to the Linn. Other TTs I had direct comparisons with were the WT Amadeus and Roksan Xerxes both, I thought, bettered the Linn (fully serviced by Linn dealers several times).
I eventually bit the bullet and got rid of the whole system.
I think you are must be hugely easier to please. The Orbe was strikingly better. A revelation. The deck which turned me off the Linn.
I can't see the point of upgrading LP12s these days when there are so many better decks, most of which are considerably cheaper. The Linn route, even to Klimax SE level, is a very short but very expensive cul-de-sac.
Barry williams
Banned
I have seen and heard a few R Soles and Kores.Have you heard a well sorted out LP12 fitted with Sole yourself?
Or have you compared Kore against Sole?
You appear to be highly prejudiced against Sole
i am not prejudiced about any after market cheep upgrade.
I just know what sounds good when my ears hear it.
Bradders
The Pork Chop Express
If buying a used LP12, it might be best to just leave it as you found it. It's the upgrade path that will get you - it's simply not worth the money.
Assuming the goal is to listen to more of the music, rather than chasing ever diminishing returns and being stuck with the Linn "character".
Assuming the goal is to listen to more of the music, rather than chasing ever diminishing returns and being stuck with the Linn "character".
Oh I think you are. Your comments above clearly show it.
Many will disagree with your ears Mr Williams.
jimification
pfm Member
LP12's can sound very good. So can some other TT's. Given the amount of money you're talking about it's definitely worth listening to the character of a few of the recommended models to hear what you like before deciding on your path.
I'd be very wary of opinions where "x is much better than y". I heard this sort of comment an awful lot but usually, whenever I compare audio components, they are more different than better. I can usually say I much prefer one over the other but that's a different thing.
I'd be very wary of opinions where "x is much better than y". I heard this sort of comment an awful lot but usually, whenever I compare audio components, they are more different than better. I can usually say I much prefer one over the other but that's a different thing.
torstoi
pfm Member
I know there are many good decks out there, just for me as I have a heavy aestetical aspect to what I put into my living room, I found nothing to replace the LP12 until I saw the DPS.
I'm getting the DPS now, it's not yet here,
but on the LP12 with it's 1st version of the sole in I can say I enjoy listening.
The LP12 is like an older VW Beetle perhaps, people selling it will come to a point deeply regretting it in some time, as it often is.
What the Sole did, was add the motor of on old Porsche 911 and an up-to-date suspension.
Back in the game and loads of fun.
Not a Frerrari and surely not a Lamborghini too, but I don't like what those look like, noor am I tempted to have those as daily drivers and see them every day.
I consider many so called upgrades are by tendency sideways moves and not really stunning improvements.
The Sole was a really stunning improvement, so much that it delivers a relaxed musical presentation even now my MC is missing and I only have my old Adikt MM on.
The latest Sole, Mark 7 even has the armboard involved in same technology
whereas my Sole consists only of the subchassis.
I heard several opinions (aside from JohnR)that the armboard and armboard-sub connection is a substancially important aspect.
So I can say I'm so pleased with the Sole1 that I am considering to go for Sole 7 after my DPS is here.
Sole 7 is 525.-, so in my opinion..if you already have the LP12, throw this in and you're back in the game.
And again..no I don't claim it's a Ferrari then or better than X or Y.
It's simply a stunning sounding LP12 you can enjoy, no less, no more.
I'm getting the DPS now, it's not yet here,
but on the LP12 with it's 1st version of the sole in I can say I enjoy listening.
The LP12 is like an older VW Beetle perhaps, people selling it will come to a point deeply regretting it in some time, as it often is.
What the Sole did, was add the motor of on old Porsche 911 and an up-to-date suspension.
Back in the game and loads of fun.
Not a Frerrari and surely not a Lamborghini too, but I don't like what those look like, noor am I tempted to have those as daily drivers and see them every day.
I consider many so called upgrades are by tendency sideways moves and not really stunning improvements.
The Sole was a really stunning improvement, so much that it delivers a relaxed musical presentation even now my MC is missing and I only have my old Adikt MM on.
The latest Sole, Mark 7 even has the armboard involved in same technology
whereas my Sole consists only of the subchassis.
I heard several opinions (aside from JohnR)that the armboard and armboard-sub connection is a substancially important aspect.
So I can say I'm so pleased with the Sole1 that I am considering to go for Sole 7 after my DPS is here.
Sole 7 is 525.-, so in my opinion..if you already have the LP12, throw this in and you're back in the game.
And again..no I don't claim it's a Ferrari then or better than X or Y.
It's simply a stunning sounding LP12 you can enjoy, no less, no more.
I heard a huge jump in performance of my LP12 after Sole is fitted in place of Linn pressed steel subchassis.
Even if you cannot bring yourself to like Sole for whatever reason(s), there is no reason to slight it. Sole is sold direct, hence middle man (read dealer)'s profit is eliminated and its final price to consumers could be kept low.
Spider
pfm Member
Hi
Not had a chance to demo other decks yet.
I've heard some of the inspire third party upgrades and thought they were impressive.
I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing before committing a large spend.
The sole looks interesting but its a punt without hearing it. Plus there will be a set up charge to add to cost as not buying it from a dealer will mean they will charge to fit it and set it up. I've been quoted £130 - £150.
So a few things still to consider.
Quite confusing and hard to be trusting of people who are selling you their products not always confident that they aren't just trying to sell you things for the sake of it.
My local dealer reckons an LP12 is better with an Ittok than my Alphason Xenon, J7 has recently told me the Xenon and LP12 are a good match although he did say it was in between a RB300 and Ittok in performance terms.
It is quite confusing I suppose at some point you just have to stay with what you've got or take the plunge.
I don't know any dealer with Michell TT's close to me.
I live near Chesterfield so if you guys know any that would help.
Thanks for the help so far.
Not had a chance to demo other decks yet.
I've heard some of the inspire third party upgrades and thought they were impressive.
I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing before committing a large spend.
The sole looks interesting but its a punt without hearing it. Plus there will be a set up charge to add to cost as not buying it from a dealer will mean they will charge to fit it and set it up. I've been quoted £130 - £150.
So a few things still to consider.
Quite confusing and hard to be trusting of people who are selling you their products not always confident that they aren't just trying to sell you things for the sake of it.
My local dealer reckons an LP12 is better with an Ittok than my Alphason Xenon, J7 has recently told me the Xenon and LP12 are a good match although he did say it was in between a RB300 and Ittok in performance terms.
It is quite confusing I suppose at some point you just have to stay with what you've got or take the plunge.
I don't know any dealer with Michell TT's close to me.
I live near Chesterfield so if you guys know any that would help.
Thanks for the help so far.
Gaius
pfm Member
I'd agree with the LP12 being better with an Ittok, it's a superb arm and you can send it to j7 for a rewire which takes it to a new level.
At the budget end and again with a j7 rewire a Rega RB250 will be a pleasant surprise.
As ever, correct set up is crucial to make the player sing.
At the budget end and again with a j7 rewire a Rega RB250 will be a pleasant surprise.
As ever, correct set up is crucial to make the player sing.