Tidal Lossless vs Apple 256kbps AAC... oh dear

[jackbarron]

Apple has access to secret extraterrestial knowledge, that's all.

Steve Jobs could have been Mr Spock or a reincarnation of Buddha, Jesus and Allah. He was a long haired hippie into LSD instead and went to India for enlightenment.

He thought Karl Marx and Gandhi were cool, but Thomas Edison was the top of the life upgrade tree.

Jack

 

[kristoffer]

I tested tidal vs local streaming of the same abum via 2 squeezeboxes , cued up etc..
ab comparison via the devialet.
No difference at all

Ok. Thanks.

 

[bownose]

In the end I decided to trust my ears and just go with Tidal lossy and not bother with lossless its really not that huge a deal... chopped Apple out of the equation when I moved to a blackphone... Spotify... Quobuz nixed too -- these internets guys are practically throwing music at me -- even my Amazon Prime has a load of really old... really dreadful music they want me to play. Sticking with Pandora though that's different and often surprising. Prime is useful and good. You save what you spend on shipping and they throw in content you didn't ask for.

The biggest improvement to my listening habits has been Roon. It encourages exploration.

 

[gassor]

I will do a level matched tidal v Spotify v iTunes test and report.

Good man. I tried Spotify V Tidal about 6 months ago and after 6 tracks I concluded I don't have much patience for this sort of thing.

 

[simmobb2]

Spent an enjoyable, lazy Sunday afternoon (respect to Ray Davies of course) listening to Marcus Miller on Spotify Premium via my Naim SU/Dynaudio Excite X12's. I confess I didn't do any comparisons with Qobuz, Tidal, Apple Music, Amazon Prime or a FLAC CD rips but I did enjoy it thoroughly. Funnily enough, the more red wine I drank the more I enjoyed it too. Let's not forget why we're here folks, listen to the music.

 

[Tim-Ann]

I've had Quboz, Spotify, Deeser, Tidal and now Apple Music, to my ears there are differences between these providers, but for us in the UK it is the rip off prices being charged for their services, so I've ditched all bar Apple Music, Family sharing so I can have a listen at 256 if I like it I buy it and up it to 1411 AIFF. The rest of my family can then have access to Apple Music but they don't play their music through a Mac Mini and a pair of ATC 150's so they love their sounds, I don't because I can hear a difference, but once I've purchased Music from Apple I then use JRiver MC21 via the Mac, because as some of you say iTunes is just not great.

Great thread.

Tim.

 

[bownose]

Steve Jobs could have been Mr Spock or a reincarnation of Buddha, Jesus and Allah. He was a long haired hippie into LSD instead and went to India for enlightenment.

All the smartest cookies take NZT-48

 

[AndyU]

I've had Quboz, Spotify, Deeser, Tidal and now Apple Music, to my ears there are differences between these providers, but for us in the UK it is the rip off prices being charged for their services, so I've ditched all bar Apple Music, Family sharing so I can have a listen at 256 if I like it I buy it and up it to 1411 AIFF. The rest of my family can then have access to Apple Music but they don't play their music through a Mac Mini and a pair of ATC 150's so they love their sounds, I don't because I can hear a difference, but once I've purchased Music from Apple I then use JRiver MC21 via the Mac, because as some of you say iTunes is just not great.

Great thread.

Tim.

You up sample from 256 to 1411? Why? You can't make it any "better". Changing a pound note into a hundred pennies doesn't make you richer!

And Qobuz is intensely good value for money IMO. Someone gives you the keys to an enormous cd shop and tells you you can borrow and listen to whatever you want for £4 a week?

 

[Rodney gold]

Just went onto Roon... Tidal lossless and Roon work real well..
$240 pa or $20 per month .. well worth it. cost of 1 decent Ceedee


Only fly in the oinkment is my small 1360 x 780 laptop gives me a "too low a resolution to run roon" error .. no real biggie tho

 

[jackbarron]

All the smartest cookies take NZT-48

A mate who is a psychotherapist told me about Nootropics yesterday. Wish I could remember what he said. We were looking a various supplements in Wholefoods, after having a cuppa. I'll have to ask him.

Jack

 

[Tim-Ann]

Andy U because when you buy anything from Apple it comes to you in a 256 format but iTunes gives you the option to create the bought product to AIFF 1411 and trust me it is far better than Apple Music's 256 offerings, don't forget you cannot create an AIFF from Apple Music or iTunes match, so that is why and it does make it sound better to my ears, not sure about anyone elses ears..

Enjoy your music.

Tim.

 

[Robert]

Andy U because when you buy anything from Apple it comes to you in a 256 format but iTunes gives you the option to create the bought product to AIFF 1411 and trust me it is far better than Apple Music's 256 offerings, don't forget you cannot create an AIFF from Apple Music or iTunes match, so that is why and it does make it sound better to my ears, not sure about anyone elses ears..

Enjoy your music.

Tim.

Are you saying iTunes allows you to replace the purchases 256K file with a lossless version?

I've never heard of this.

 

[Zombie]

Are you saying iTunes allows you to replace the 256K file with a lossless version?

I've never heard of this.

Apple has extraterrestial powers that transcend science and common sense.

 

[Tim-Ann]

Hi there, YES but only on purchases, not on Apple Music and of course iTunes match only provides 256 and cannot be converted.

Tim.

 

[AndyU]

Hi there, YES but only on purchases, not on Apple Music and of course iTunes match only provides 256 and cannot be converted.

Tim.

All you are doing is converting compressed 256 AAC to an uncompressed format like AIFF - you aren't getting any better file, it just takes up more disk space. It is strange that you accuse the lossless providers like Qobuz and Tidal of being rip-offs when they can often sell you a cd quality product for less than apple charge you for a compressed down sampled one. I think you are just kidding yourself if you think that changing the format of iTunes purchases does anything useful to them - they are still relatively low grade and have lost information compared to the cd or master.

 

[Stunsworth]

Hi there, YES but only on purchases, not on Apple Music and of course iTunes match only provides 256 and cannot be converted

Purchases from Apple are lossy. iTunes may allow you to convert that to a lossless file but, as others have said, there's no point.

 

[Tim-Ann]

Hi, a very senior moment there I tend to buy from Apple as a download create an AIFF format version if I really like the music I then source a CD quality download or CD from various sources. I then bring this into JRiver MC21 and convert to an Apple format either as an AIFF or ALAC and of course using JRiver I can if I need convert to FLAC but why? Now I've got loads of CD's all in FLAC and converted into Apple format and used in iTunes on Apple devices.

Again I will say that I can hear a difference between a 256 converted to a 1411 AIFF file and I can hear a difference using JRiver Mc21 but that is because MC21 is using its playback settings rather than iTunes settings however both programs run on the Mac Mini via a USB into A DP32 Pre then balanced out to the ATC’s. But to reiterate in iTunes I can pick up differences between the 256 to the 1411 files why well you tell me I can’t but I can.

Tim awaiting a war.

 

[simmobb2]

Hi, a very senior moment there I tend to buy from Apple as a download create an AIFF format version if I really like the music I then source a CD quality download or CD from various sources. I then bring this into JRiver MC21 and convert to an Apple format either as an AIFF or ALAC and of course using JRiver I can if I need convert to FLAC but why? Now I've got loads of CD's all in FLAC and converted into Apple format and used in iTunes on Apple devices.

Again I will say that I can hear a difference between a 256 converted to a 1411 AIFF file and I can hear a difference using JRiver Mc21 but that is because MC21 is using its playback settings rather than iTunes settings however both programs run on the Mac Mini via a USB into A DP32 Pre then balanced out to the ATC’s. But to reiterate in iTunes I can pick up differences between the 256 to the 1411 files why well you tell me I can’t but I can.

Tim awaiting a war.

Hi Tim, I too use Jriver MC21 and really like it's sound and facilities. I agree wholeheartedly that it's pretty easy to differentiate between compressed and lossless music but my take on it is that it doesn't really matter. I can happily listen to my tranny, no not him, as I fall asleep at night at 80kbs. Likewise I spent many hours yesterday enjoying Spotify Premium at 320Kbs. When it all boils down its about the music. Perhaps the ear adjusts to whatever it has available?

 

[adamdea]

Hi Tim, I too use Jriver MC21 and really like it's sound and facilities. I agree wholeheartedly that it's pretty easy to differentiate between compressed and lossless music but my take on it is that it doesn't really matter. I can happily listen to my tranny, no not him, as I fall asleep at night at 80kbs. Likewise I spent many hours yesterday enjoying Spotify Premium at 320Kbs. When it all boils down its about the music. Perhaps the ear adjusts to whatever it has available?

I'm slightly confused as to whether Tim can hear the difference between a lossless file and a lossy file, or between a lossy file pre-unpacked and one unpacked on the fly.

It may be that a bit of gain is applied in the (pre) conversion or it may be that 256 AAC is not transparent (you might be surprised how surprised some people would be about that).

Either way though you are right: the ear certainly does adjust to whatever it has available- you can recognise familiar sounds in unfamiliar rooms. You can recognise the same tune on different pianos or sung by different singers or transposed to a different voices or instruments.

 

[Revluga]

At the end of the day it all comes down to the genre of music. Pop, Dance, R&B and most of this new fake hip hop you cannot hear a difference between tidal Apple Spotify etc. Jazz classical folk acoustic some electronic you will defiantly hear a difference. It all comes down to who the target audience is and the artist who created the track I listen to jazz and hip hop mostly if play kendric Lamar on my set up I can hear voices in the background as he wants me to. If I play drake I get the same sound as if my setup wasn't worth what it's worth cause he makes music for radio so extra details are not required. I put on some Josefine Cronholm voices are dead centre and instruments float it's a complete different feeling when I stream her music it looses a bit of dynamics which I expect but each service is slightly more loss than others. The other day I played antonio forcione sabina sciubba the separation on a flac file was perfect voice off centre instruments in the far corner streamed the same file everything dead centre still sounded good just not how the cd rip sounded. Which when playing pop etc sounds the same no matter the source.