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The huge vintage tuner thread

For the 'Size blots out discrimination' contributors who think that Naim tuners need big aerial arrays to compensate for their diminutive dimensions etc, I thought it might be edifying to look at some of the content of these reviews of what the site in questions calls 'The three best tuners' http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ricochets.html:

"Like virtually all tuners of interest, the audio stage sucks! When one combines poor op-amps (or simple discrete circuits) with low-value electrolytic coupling caps, low drive current and poor filtration, you get what was designed in, e.g., bad sound. This is another argument for implementing an external MPLX/Audio. The L-02T is too expensive to modify and damage the value, but fortunately you don't have to because virtually all of the compromises are after the detector......

.... As with almost all Kenwoods except the 600T, shielding, cabling and layout are not done too well. Kenwood could have learned a lot from these practices within the Yamaha CT-7000. One reason for this is the size and complexity of each of the boards. However, any top-notch tuner should have a detector shield as the CT-7000 and the F-26 have incorporated."

Skyebridge
 
BTW, someone is selling a Pioneer TX 9500ii in the classifieds (here I think) for £100 inc original box etc which is a steal, if I hadn't had the Sony re-capped I would have bought it in a minute.

There's also a Naim Nat 01 for sale at £650 but the reviews for this tuner are pretty disappointing on tunerinfo.com

I'm not related to any of the sellers BTW and have no interest in the sales.

Tony
 
Assuming both ads are genuinely what they state, I know which one is the better buy!

Quite apart from the damning information about poor design and implementation quoted in my last post, i have been reading on this famously authoritative site about tuners like the Naim Nat-01 having "poor base response" etc.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

The function of a tuner is to be a signal path for the collection/interception, optimal filtering and resolution/feeding of FM (and possibly other) broadcasts to the other components in a pre-amp/amp/speaker system.

In terms of Hi-Fi, one might as well forget the MW/LW/SW components that are so prominently part of the BIG tuna scene.

Also, the much-vaunted Revox tuners - and no doubt many of the Japanese - need FAR MORE expensive maintenance than anything produced by Naim, which counts in favour of even the lowly Nat-03, which is recognised to be by far the poorest implementation of the line-up over the past thirty years of essentially continuous production around the same fundamental design.

How many Kenwoods etc can say that?

If the sub-system within the tuna is built to capture the maximum/optimum FM signal then how much 'presence' you get delivered at the other end of the system will depend on how good the 'downline' components are ... so even the world-beating capacity of a Nat-01 to pass on signal with integrity will be for naught if these are less good.

I was told by a Naim employee that one of the original Nat-01's was demonstrated in New York City in 1986 when the Nat-101 was first introduced. The Nat-01 picked up the local FM signal without any aerial, but the Nat-101 could not do so. However, when the Nat-101 was then linked to the Nat-01, its ability to capture signal was such that it woulc also 'feed' its stable-mate.

Stories like that are lovely (and maybe somebody here can verify/correct) but real life dominates.

In those terms I have never listened to or been privileged to own a better tuner than a Nat-01, which on Radio-3 outside broadcasts such as the Proms leaves anything else I have ever heard (including the Nat-05) standing.

Anyhow, I do appreciate that this is on another plane than 'Big Tunas'

Skyebridge
 
Skybridge, I really do belive you. The Naim 01 is THE ONE and everything else is not worth bothering with. it's OK, really I'm convinced already. So sad i sold my 01 and 02. Such a dreadful error:)
 
Following upon Abbydog's self-abnegation, perhaps we should all build on the joys of the holiday season (mother-in-law et al) by engaging in self-correction?

In the spirit of Abbeydog, Pol Pot, Mao and Santa Claus I therefore acknowledge a deep & persistent urge to acquire a Revox B-260, and to spend the next decade in self-education - listening, learning, repairing ....

I also acknowledge and give thanks to Pfm & its wonderful spirit of give-&-take information sharing for having made 2012 my "Year Of the Garrard 401 Acquisition & Grat Learning Experience" (Shurely shome mistake This is Tuna thread - Ed.)

Have great holidays everyone!

Skyebridge
 
Skye- have you had a play yet with an Onix BWD1? It's right up there IMO.

The Revox is a charming Nextel box of buttons and whatnot but doesn't actually sound that good. And the mains transformer can be a bit fragile.
 
martin,

is this is a japanese brand (perhaps with early south korea connections) which appeared in the UK in the 1980's?

if that's the brand then my memory suggests its role was inundating the market with 'follow-the-fashion-at-lower-cost' eminently forgettable stuff.

which would then lead to the question, 'what's different about this product'?

on the revox side, i notice with consternation that i wrote 'B260' when i meant to write 'A 760'. there is of course some association, but the later and sexier BIG TUNA is the A-760.

this is the current infatuation which Abbeydog has prompted me to reveal. despite all attempts from sounder advice, i follow these on eBay.

unfortunately for me, even examples which desperately need new valves, transistors etc are selling for sums well in advance of £200. my guess is a full 'restoration', if parts can be found, would cost about double the buying price?

ah well, i suppose when we're stricken with desire, that's it - everything goes on hold until we possess the object.

so, i'd like to be diverted from the hopeless quest for a trope-ish Revox A-760 ... towards an Onix BWD1

Skyebridge
 
skyebridge said:
martin,

is this is a japanese brand (perhaps with early south korea connections) which appeared in the UK in the 1980's?

if that's the brand then my memory suggests its role was inundating the market with 'follow-the-fashion-at-lower-cost' eminently forgettable stuff.

which would then lead to the question, 'what's different about this product'?

on the revox side, i notice with consternation that i wrote 'B260' when i meant to write 'A 760'. there is of course some association, but the later and sexier BIG TUNA is the A-760.

this is the current infatuation which Abbeydog has prompted me to reveal. despite all attempts from sounder advice, i follow these on eBay.

unfortunately for me, even examples which desperately need new valves, transistors etc are selling for sums well in advance of £200. my guess is a full 'restoration', if parts can be found, would cost about double the buying price?

ah well, i suppose when we're stricken with desire, that's it - everything goes on hold until we possess the object.

so, i'd like to be diverted from the hopeless quest for a trope-ish Revox A-760 ... towards an Onix BWD1

Skyebridge
Click to expand...

Onix was a British brand, from Brighton IIRC.

Regards,
Nick
 
Nick,

Thanks for that. My apology. I was confusing the brand with a somewhat similar Japanese/Korean name - Onkyo.

Onix sparks a recollection, but I don't have direct experience of any of their products. Does anyone know of a record of their production?

Skyebridge
 
Skye - have replied to your PM.

Actually I made the same category error as you; the Revox A/B 760s was the model I had in mind. Complex, but not actually that good-sounding when a friend had the couple to play with (and they remained working). Ultimately dull, far more so that one hoped - I mean, they look wonderful; they'll do anything; none of it moved me.
 
Yes, sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind. Quite a few years ago I was offered a complete 'suite' of Revox by a dealer in Colchester. Everything was in amazingly good condition - B-77 tape deck, power amps, A-760 pre-amp/tuner, (and there might have been something to play Cd's). The dealer (rightly from his point of view - arguing from aesthetics) wanted a few hundred quid. My thought (unworthily) was that this heavyweight collection would never fetch more than its scrap value.

It's not to be grudged that some of this kit is having a 'second coming', but I'm glad it's not been sitting in my store room all the years waiting for that!

Skyebridge

Skyebridge
 
Seriously, though, if you look at Naim's (a) comparative 'simplicity' of design (b) factory support (no replacement digital displays for Nat-01, but more or less everything else available) (c) 'alternative' mods such as Avondae, Neiljadman etc - and then compare the complications and costs of sourcing parts for the Japanese and German 'Big Tunas' - well, QED.

Skyebridge
 
I picked up my cheapest tuner yet, a Denon TU-800L (1988 vintage), for just £22 last week. It sounds excellent (comparable to the Yamaha T-85, but not as good as the Yamaha T-2, which is in a league of its own), is very sensitive, and has 3 IF bands, Wide, Narrow, and Super Narrow. The last one is great for DXing with excellent selectivity, just a hair behind my Kenwood KT-1100SD which is modified with narrower filters. The Denon sounds better than the Kenwood too.

Just goes to show you don't need to spend much money to get a superb tuner second-hand.

Regards,
Nick
 
Mark Radcliffe's show on Radio 2 was sounding excellent on the Denon last night with a great soundstage and depth. It certainly sounded better than a lot of programming on the station. It almost sounded like I was listening on the Yamaha T-2 again.

I must get another pair of Chord analogue interconnects for this tuner. Should improve the sound a bit more.
 
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