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TeddyCap vs HiCap DR for Naim Supernait2

Disbeliever said:
I very much doubt if the SN2 can be bettered by any other integrated amplifier especially if using accurate natural sounding speakers.
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That makes me wonder whether Naim have literally outdone themselves and gone as far as they can go with integrated amplifiers - at least, that's the incertitude your comment implies.
 
windhoek said:
That makes me wonder whether Naim have literally outdone themselves and gone as far as they can go with integrated amplifiers - at least, that's the incertitude your comment implies.
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We all have our own preferences, I see you have a LP12, I much prefer, no problem set up leaf suspension Thorens TD 321 mine is 30 years old only required one belt change. Once owned a LP 12.
 
RossB said:
First, I should explain that I bought the SN2 in an attempt to downsize from my Exposure system of MCX preamp and 16 mono power amps, which are three large and heavy boxes. I knew there would be some compromises but the SN2 was just too big a downgrade.

I found the SN2 to be rather thin and monochrome sounding, even with the HCDR. It had decent bass but there was no fullness of sound. The defining moment for me was when I was listening to a very familiar Mozart piano concerto, and was wondering where the orchestra had gone. With my Exposure amps the orchestra sounds full and rich, and the massed violins have body and texture. With the SN2 the violins sound papery and skeletal. I knew then that the SN2 was not for me. In addition, going from the SN2 to the Exposure amps was like going from black and white to technicolor.

I also have a Tron Seven preamp and have just ordered the Convergence mono amps to go with it. The Tron gear is a little different again, but very colourful and highly musical.

The cost of an SN2 and HCDR should buy you an amplifier competitive with anything out there. But it doesn't. I know you can achieve much better sound going further up the Naim hierarchy, but the prices become obscene and even then, frankly, it's not all that good. Again, you can get much better sound for less elsewhere.
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Very interesting findings Ross, thanks for sharing!

Have you had opportunity to compared Exposure 3010 series with SN2 or same level Naim? I'd be interested to compare 3010 monoblocks and pre to SN2.
 
Patu said:
Have you had opportunity to compared Exposure 3010 series with SN2 or same level Naim? I'd be interested to compare 3010 monoblocks and pre to SN2.
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I haven't heard the 3010 series, and I would also be curious to know what they are like.
 
mynaimismike said:
Hello! I have owned all of Naim's power supplies and all of of Teddy's.

Here is my observation:

Teddy Power supplies:
flat sounding, wide soundstage,ultra low noise,light tight bass
low maintenance, cost effective,compact

Naim power supplies:
more dynamic,more air, fatter bass,more top end shimmer,"creamier",more depth ,more room decay,need recapping, hum from case,clumsy

It boils down to components,room acoustics,etc.. I think adding any power supply to a SN2 defeats the purpose of having an integrated amp. But if going that route I would choose Hicap DR. The Teddy I tried didnt seem to improve the sound. It was just different.
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I agree completely , this is my experience in TXPS vs XPSDR, depending on the music you play each has strengths and weaknesses. I did find TXPS better with aquositic stuff, blue note etc while Naim rock, electronica and symphonies.
 
It doesn't surprise me that a pre/mono block set up would blow away an SN2.

Nothing much has been mentioned of the sources used in the comparisons above or the speakers used.
 
Minio said:
It doesn't surprise me that a pre/mono block set up would blow away an SN2.

Nothing much has been mentioned of the sources used in the comparisons above or the speakers used.
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My old 72/HC/Olive 250 was also much better than the SN2, as was my 25 year old Exposure XX integrated amp in most respects (other than low noise floor primarily). My sources are a Metrum Pavane DAC and Rega RP8/Benz L0.4 with Superline/Supercap or Trilogy 907. Speakers are Harbeth M30.1s.

The other point is that the SN2/Hicap DR is more expensive than some very good pre/power amps from other manufacturers and should be competitive with them. The SN2 is not priced as an entry level product.
 
There are plenty of good alternatives to the SN2 I'm sure of that. I just think that as with all amp varieties they alone do not a system make.

One personal example:

I've had a hicapped Naim CD5X for some time among other players and it was becoming my least favourite one and I had a view to selling it.
Along came the Supernait 2 and now the CD5X is my favourite player as it complements this system so well. Along with Neat Momentum speakers it sounds like a heavenly match.

On the other hand I've heard the SN2 sound unbearable in a system at the dealer and might easily have come away thinking "this amp is not for me".
 
analogmusic said:
Thanks Chris

I am also quite interested to try Teddy's PR 1 preamp and ST60 power amp, but does the your I180 boogie as much as the Supernait 2?

Which source are you using with your SN and also with your Teddy amp, and which speakers, which speaker cables?

How is the I180 better than SN2?
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See my comments on the I80A thread.

Disbeliever disbelieves, I do not care.

I have them both, I can compare both Amps almost on the fly if my SN2 were not to take 2 days of warm up ;-))

Sources: Rega RP8, Teddy DAC, Rega Apollo SE
Speakers: Spendor SP2 3R2
Cables: All Teddy Pardo

Cheers,
Chris
 
Minio said:
There are plenty of good alternatives to the SN2 I'm sure of that. I just think that as with all amp varieties they alone do not a system make.

One personal example:

I've had a hicapped Naim CD5X for some time among other players and it was becoming my least favourite one and I had a view to selling it.
Along came the Supernait 2 and now the CD5X is my favourite player as it complements this system so well. Along with Neat Momentum speakers it sounds like a heavenly match.

On the other hand I've heard the SN2 sound unbearable in a system at the dealer and might easily have come away thinking "this amp is not for me".
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Something radically wrong with source, speakers, or room acoustics for the excellent SN2 to sound unbearable.
 
Chris68 said:
See my comments on the I80A thread.

Disbeliever disbelieves, I do not care.

I have them both, I can compare both Amps almost on the fly if my SN2 were not to take 2 days of warm up ;-))

Sources: Rega RP8, Teddy DAC, Rega Apollo SE
Speakers: Spendor SP2 3R2
Cables: All Teddy Pardo

Cheers,
Chris
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Not seen a proper spec or sensible review of the 180a that contains for me poor sounding JFETS so this amp does not interest me. Heard it at Show a few years ago but room acoustics not good so could not form an opinion, it did nothing for me on dem. The SN2 does not take 2 days to warm up, so I disbelieve your comments.
 
Disbeliever said:
Not seen a proper spec or sensible review of the 180a that contains for me poor sounding JFETS so this amp does not interest me. Heard it at Show a few years ago but room acoustics not good so could not form an opinion, it did nothing for me on dem. The SN2 does not take 2 days to warm up, so I disbelieve your comments.
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Perhaps there was something radically wrong with source, speakers, or room acoustics for the excellent i80a to sound unbearable.
 
Disbeliever said:
Not seen a proper spec or sensible review of the 180a that contains for me poor sounding JFETS so this amp does not interest me. Heard it at Show a few years ago but room acoustics not good so could not form an opinion, it did nothing for me on dem. The SN2 does not take 2 days to warm up, so I disbelieve your comments.
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Your last comment proves to me that you do not know a lot about Naim Amps.:D
 
Disbeliever said:
Something radically wrong with source, speakers, or room acoustics for the excellent SN2 to sound unbearable.
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Quite so. In fact I bought that exact SN2 (added a TC and hicapped the cdp) and I'm loving and listening to it right now. My point being that you could have the best amplifier in the whole world but if nothing else is designed to work with it then the system needs to be reworked.

As this thread started off about power supplies then yes;
in my case they do make the difference between unbearable and loveable.
 
Chris68 said:
Your last comment proves to me that you do not know a lot about Naim Amps.:D
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You are correct I know very little in general about Naim amps, I have never been a Naim fan
the SN2 is the first one I have bought to audition at Home, it is expensive, due to my connections I got it trade price, however I did find sound very good . on par with my 20 year old Class AB 120 wpc integrated, both sound best after 4 hours,and both considerably better than the Arcam Class G amp, it was not better than my amp so I sold it on. The SN2 is very good reproducing operatic sopranos , violin ,piano, bass etc. I judge SQ only with Classical music.
 
I compared bare SN2 with Teddycap MkIII and Hicap DR .
Bare SN2 excellent punch and detail.
SN2 with Teddy Cap MkIII.-- Less mid bass,less sparkle-flatter sound
SN2 with Hicap Dr. More of everything but not enough to warrant the cost.
When Teddys supplies are compared to Naim on upper- end Naim equipment I found the difference much more noticeable. Keep in mind I have Naim SBL speakers which are very lively.
Teddys supplies ..punchy,wide sound stage, nice mids, light bass, clean sound, quiet, reliable operation
Naim -more bass and depth,,more dynamic,creamier sound,more low level detail.
 
Interesting findings there. I have the older SN1 and a brand new HiCap DR. Imho, the SN1 without a HiCap is rather raw and unrefined, whereas the HCDR absolutely transforms it in terms of refinement, noise floor and better bass control. Even the soundstage is slightly bigger.

I wonder whether SN2 would better the SN1 + HCDR combo.
 
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