Sound quality at gigs

[Operajulian]

Venue install is irrelevent, every tour ive been involved with brought in their own rig.

When I did more touring ( decades ago) - we did not always take our own system on the road. Sometimes, we would supplement the in house system with a locally arranged pa hire but not always.

The aim of the team on the renovation of Massey Hall, Toronto was to install a system that no touring band would be ashamed of in the context of the space. It's a real pain to offload gear into the venue, even with recent backstage improvements. We did put in extra rigging systems so its easier to bring a "one night" system but so far most bands have left their line arrays back on the truck. They will bring in their backline and their own touring desk of course.

 

[paulfromcamden]

It's a real pain to offload gear into the venue, even with recent backstage improvements. We did put in extra rigging systems so its easier to bring a "one night" system but so far most bands have left their line arrays back on the truck. They will bring in their backline and their own touring desk of course.

I've done the occasional load in at Union Chapel when they needed an extra pair of hands. Access from the street is terrible. The route to the stage is through narrow church corridors. The floor is on a slope. No one in their right mind would insist on bringing their own PA if they could help it.

 

[CTank]

If we’re taking clubs, Ministry of Sound still sets the standard. After lots of trial and error, stood right next to the stack, but slightly behind attenuated the highs nicely, whilst maximising bass physicality. Last time I was there, Deptford Northern Soul Club were playing when I arrived. I was a bit concerned, as it sounded very trebley and overdriven. Exactly the kind of sound that exacerbates my permanent tinnitus. Then Greg Wilson came on, complete with his R2R setup, which sounded 100 times better. Indeed, one of the best sounds I’ve heard in a club.

Clubs are nowhere near as loud as they used to be in the 90’s. Drum and bass nights at Bar Rumba were insane, your internal organs felt like they were leaving your body on the drop. Great times, but my hearing has been paying for it ever since.

 

[DiBosco]

I *****' love this thread. I've suddenly found a whole heap of people who have the same ambivalence or antipathy towards gigs. I have so many friends who are always going on about this gig and that gig and how live music is great; I would say that over 95% of gigs I've been to I've come away going "meh" at best. There are only a handful that I've come away from going, yep, that was amazing.

I do, however, think that the sound at gigs is in a whole different world to when I started watching and playing a lot of gigs in the 80s and throughout the 90s. For example, went to see Shawn Colvin at Stoller Hall in Manchester last year and the sound was superb. The gig was boring as **** and her voice has gone, but "polite" levels and crystal clear. (Awful venue, just awful, like being sat down on your best behaviour with a cup of tea at your aunt's house. Staid, dull, soulless place. Would always rather go to an intimate venue like Trades Club in Hebden Bridge or International III in Manchester.)

We run the bars on a voluntary basis at our little local folk festival and even there in one of the venues, with these white noise generators that help tune the PA our engineer gets superb sound. And again, all at sensible volumes. I do not miss the 90s where you came away feeling like you'd been whacked around the head by sound waves.

I think there's an insoluble problem whereby if the song is too close to the album you may as well listen at home and if it's too different, there's no enjoyment from it.

Gigs shmigs.

 

[DiBosco]

I saw Godspeed You! Black Emperor at some bar on Oldham St in Manchester that I forget the name of.

Night And Day?

but REM and AC/DC always sounded pretty poor

One of the very rare exceptions to me loving a gig was REM (supported by 10k Maniacs) at the Hammy Odeon in 87. But some long distance the best gig I've seen. Still sespect I've I heard a recording of it now I'd think it was shite mind!

 

[paulfromcamden]

I think there's an insoluble problem whereby if the song is too close to the album you may as well listen at home and if it's too different, there's no enjoyment from it.

That's an interesting comment and I think explains a few of the "I went to a Dumpy's Rusty Nuts gig in a shed in Basingstoke and it didn't sound exactly like their records do on my hi-fi" type posts.

I don't really understand why anyone would pay to stand in a room of sweaty strangers drinking crap beer if they're just hoping to repeat the experience of listening to their hi-fi.

Surely the point of live music is that it's a fundamentally different experience to listening to a recording at home?

 

[Tony L]

Night And Day?

Googling around it looks like Planet K in Nov 2000 (Concert Archives).

 

[DiBosco]

Googling around it looks like Planet K in Nov 2000 (Concert Archives).

Ah OK. Not a venue I'd ever tried.

Night and Day has a rich history of gigs, has been around since the mid 90s and is still going, despite the newbie NIMBYs attempts to shut it down in recent times. Eyewateringly expensive bottled beers was my memory from when I've been there!

 

[mark.king]

The venue does make a difference as does where you are standing or seated. Like a system at home, some parts of the room sound awful. I remember seeing Pink Floyd doing the wall at Earl’s Court and it wasn’t good. I saw Genesis the year after in Liverpool and it was brilliant. I’ve also seen Steve Hackett a couple of times and the sound has always been great. The rest have gone from ok to awful.

 

[Ugg10]

That's an interesting comment and I think explains a few of the "I went to a Dumpy's Rusty Nuts gig in a shed in Basingstoke and it didn't sound exactly like their records do on my hi-fi" type posts.

I don't really understand why anyone would pay to stand in a room of sweaty strangers drinking crap beer if they're just hoping to repeat the experience of listening to their hi-fi.

Surely the point of live music is that it's a fundamentally different experience to listening to a recording at home?

That's a blast from the past - saw DRN at QMC Union back in the mid 80's. Great fun band and a great night out as far as I can remember.

 

[Tumeni Notes]

I recall reading one of the Professional sound magazines back in the day, and Cliff Richard's live sound engineers were being interviewed.

What stuck with me was that they said they were using two PA systems (when considering amplification and speakers); one for the band, and one dedicated solely to the vocals. Because the vocal didn't have to share resources with all the other clutter - bass, drums, etc. - the result was exceptional vocal clarity.

 

[mikebirtill]

The problem is that even in small venues, everyone is using a line array. Ive never heard a decent one. HoweverI go to an annual EDM festival in the woods where the PA is Funktion1 - proper paper cones in birch cabs, point source , etc. and my god the sound quality is sublime

 

[irb]

I recall reading one of the Professional sound magazines back in the day, and Cliff Richard's live sound engineers were being interviewed.

What stuck with me was that they said they were using two PA systems (when considering amplification and speakers); one for the band, and one dedicated solely to the vocals. Because the vocal didn't have to share resources with all the other clutter - bass, drums, etc. - the result was exceptional vocal clarity.

That's interesting. I'm ashamed to admit I was at a Cliff gig once, in the early 80s, at Glasgow Apollo. The vocals were outstandingly clear - easily the best vocal sound I ever heard in the Apollo.

 

[kjb]

One of my favorite shows was Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers at Hammersmith Odeon maybe 1978 or thereabouts.

Unamplified drums and two 30w (tops) amps. The audience were hushing each other so they could hear. I recall the very quiet sound being crystal clear.

Here's a clip of the same at around the same time

At the other extreme, My Bloody Valentine at the Roundhouse in 2008 was loads of pure noise - you could see your clothes flapping from the volume but make out very little of what they were playing. We were next to the mixing desk - every meters stayed at the top of red for most of the show. Bonkers but quite exhilarating.

 

[CTank]

One of my favorite shows was Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers at Hammersmith Odeon maybe 1978 or thereabouts.

Unamplified drums and two 30w (tops) amps. The audience were hushing each other so they could hear. I recall the very quiet sound being crystal clear.

Here's a clip of the same at around the same time

What an amazing clip. Thanks for sharing, I really needed the lift from that.

 

[david ellwood]

For those wondering why the support act often gets a better sound than the headliner, it’s because they are actually present during sound check.

 

[leroyd]

Played with a rock covers band in my local city and had a Saturday night residency for over a decade. It worked very well, not least because we had a vocal PA only and unamplified, but very well sounding backline. The feedback from many of the punters was that they were fed up with many of the other live music pubs/clubs in town, getting their ears blown out with over the top PA rigs.
We used a couple of condenser mics hanging from the stage ceiling, feeding a small amp and a couple of speakers, located at the very back of the venue, out of sight of the band. Very surprised at how well that worked.