Rockmeister
pfm Member
Blimey...all i did was eat me tea and watch ripping yarns and I’ve missed the extinction of 3 whole species of crustacean! Dare I go to sleep?
So that's the climate f****d then
- Thread starter avole
- Start date
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Tim,
Joe
The current species extinction rate is at least one hundred times greater than the natural background extinction rate. It should concern everyone that lives on this planet that biodiversity is declining rapidly.
Based on what, the speed at which things are going to shit?
Joe
davidsrsb
pfm Member
It's very hard to say how many species were around in the past.
Very few present day species are leaving any fossils at all. You have to have some very rare situations for this to happen, anaerobic mud, tar pits, volcanic ash etc.
timola
pfm Member
I think you need to revisit the tree of life analogy.
timola
pfm Member
I may have it wrong; but imagine a tree getting ever larger with more dividing branches over time (evolutionary). The number of branches is correlated to the number of species, almost by definition we have more species now than in the past. The last I heard, no big branch has been knocked off yet.
One could argue (actually there is no need to argue) that total biomass on the planet has broken all records since humans appeared.
One could argue (actually there is no need to argue) that total biomass on the planet has broken all records since humans appeared.
timola
pfm Member
Based on the myriad unprecedented human achievements to date. An easy oft quoted one: The Wright brothers in 1910 strap a small petrol engine to some sticks to Voyager 1 having left the Solar system in 2017 (12 Billion miles and counting) with sounds and data from humans on a pale blue dot.
Also on this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0141034645/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
But really that's just my fanciful interpretation of this book. In case you're not familiar with it, it basically says that although most people think that humans are getting worse as is their lives, in fact things have improved beyond all imagining in every aspect in a very short time.
PS: the climate in not f****d, it's just getting a bit warmer.
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Tim,
Voyager I and II are indeed an awesome accomplishments but what does sending probes into space have to do with the massive declines in biodiversity on Earth from habitat loss, habitat fragmentation, introduction of invasive species, pressure from pollution, etc.?
It’s like arguing my bank balance must be bigger — regardless of my income, spending and saving — because CPUs have more transistors today than in 1978.
Joe
Voyager I and II are indeed an awesome accomplishments but what does sending probes into space have to do with the massive declines in biodiversity on Earth from habitat loss, habitat fragmentation, introduction of invasive species, pressure from pollution, etc.?
It’s like arguing my bank balance must be bigger — regardless of my income, spending and saving — because CPUs have more transistors today than in 1978.
Joe
Mr Cat
Owner
Rock,
The issue is that the planet is heating up right now, the rate of change is unprecedented since humans have walked the Earth, and we're the cause of the change.
What happened on Earth 500 million years ago is of course fascinating, but it's of little relevance to a biological world that has moved on a bit from the time that simple invertebrates teemed in the oceans. I mean, 500 million years ago is before the time when the earliest vertebrates appeared. It's even before the time when simple plants colonized land.
Joe
I just wish it would hurry up and warm up in the northeast england...fed up of it always being cold here
timola
pfm Member
Using your analogy, it's like having to borrow (maybe payday loan-wise) to invest or get out of the hole. In hindsight (maybe 100 years hence) it might seem like a necessary (unavoidable) 'evil' or some initial pain to get to the green pasture. Economic wealth drives science and progress IMO.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Tim,
I have no idea where you're heading on this. I don’t deny technological progress. That has unquestionably happened. For example, the department where I work had, in 1967, the most powerful computer in Canada — a big-ass IBM mainframe that filled a room. Today, I have much more computing power in my iPod.
But what does that have to do with loss of biodiversity?
Joe
I have no idea where you're heading on this. I don’t deny technological progress. That has unquestionably happened. For example, the department where I work had, in 1967, the most powerful computer in Canada — a big-ass IBM mainframe that filled a room. Today, I have much more computing power in my iPod.
But what does that have to do with loss of biodiversity?
Joe
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Science and technology can progress quite happily without wrecking the planet.
timola
pfm Member
Just as thought experiment, please begin in the 17th century before the industrial revolution and just imagine how history would unfold without fossil fuel use that brings us to a technological age.....I will await with much interest....because I can't imagine it in any plausible way.
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
timola
pfm Member
I couldn't figure out the point of that cartoon. Maybe some people just like to make themselves feel bad about being human. Its says nothing to me as its so far off the mark or the world as I see it, that its plain silly, but if people like to feel down about things then go for it, while the rest of us can enjoy life and figure things out.
if that was your attempt to answer my question, I'm disappointed.
Wow, another thought provoking answer....I'll just rest my case for now.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Tim,
I’m not down on humanity but neither am I a head-buried-in-the-sand Pollyanna. The threat to biodiversity is real and its decline well documented. If we ignore problems they don’t disappear and they won’t solve themselves.
Joe
I’m not down on humanity but neither am I a head-buried-in-the-sand Pollyanna. The threat to biodiversity is real and its decline well documented. If we ignore problems they don’t disappear and they won’t solve themselves.
Joe
Last edited:
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Scientific progress is not carried out by average people, its carried out by well above average people. In the case of switching to an economy powered by renewables, how long do you think it would take?, most likely five years if the will was there. Is there are precedent?, yes look at WW2 The US up to WW2 has produced about 3000 planes, by the end of WW2 it had produced 300,000, if we had a hundred times more renewables than today, its job done.