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Should Britain welcome Shamima Begum Back?

Tony L said:
I have absolutely zero faith in the UK political system and I’d argue this had little to do with the legal system as it was carried out entirely behind closed doors. I have a lot of respect for the legal system and actually choose it as my weapon against corrupt Tory elite rule by funding Good Law Project etc. This case was so hidden and politicised by the government it is impossible to challenge without first arguing for freedom of information and political accountability. These are things that are always worth fighting for.
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Are you suggesting this is a pre determined govt decision and as a result, a kangaroo court?
 
Ponty said:
You effectively have no faith in the UK legal system, don’t like the verdict, or both?
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A fair trial is no trial at all...

I have lost all my faith in the British legal System in 2003.

Reading a reserved judgement concerning me who had won several times going through the county court system.

That judgement, published in The Times newspaper held no relevance to the legal matters within concerning Housing Law and Section 20 / 21 of the 1988 housing act.

They, the f'in "law lords" can get away with f'in anything they like.

Did anyone ever watch Jeremy Paxman interview Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers on TV?

Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers - Search on Bing

Pathetic, Paxman tiptoed around Phillips, he behaved like some kind of neutered sheep, Cringe worthy.

That law lord looked at me sheepishly when I uttered, "OHH, AM I." using my loudest deepest voice in his courtroom at the RCJ in the Strand, WC2A. After I had just been told I was going to have a nasty shock!
 
The home office were Nazis under Labour also. I have first hand experience. They are in fact in charge. The government is not.
 
Ponty said:
Are you suggesting this is a pre determined govt decision and as a result, a kangaroo court?
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I’m seeing little evidence it wasn’t. The indisputable fact is a 15 year old child with British citizenship was brainwashed and groomed into a religious death cult. I’m prepared to bet a white child groomed into a violently racist or homophobic far-right group would have been treated very differently by this government. This would have been the case even if say the child had joint UK/EU or UK/American citizenship. This cruelty is very precisely targeted. The fact she was so clearly a groomed child really should be the start and end of this.
 
Tony L said:
I’m seeing little evidence it wasn’t. The indisputable fact is a 15 year old child with British citizenship was brainwashed and groomed into a religious death cult. I’m prepared to bet a white child groomed into a violently racist or homophobic far-right group would have been treated very differently by this government. This would have been the case even if say the child had joint UK/EU or UK/American citizenship. This cruelty is very precisely targeted. The fact she was so clearly a groomed child really should be the start and end of this.
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Because you can’t see any evidence doesn’t mean the courts are in the pocket of government. Your a thoughtful bloke but that’s just losing it.
 
MUTTY1 said:
the courts are in the pocket of government.
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Indeed they are when matters concern housing law!!

Assured Shorthold tenancies were / are utter Bollox.

The higher courts always decide in the favour of landlords and / or land owners no matter of concerning legal points. AISI.

They, them law lords twist and distort the law to suit themselves.
 
eevo1969 said:
Let her come back and pay the piper. 10 years would be sufficient. Plenty of people serving long sentences for just thinking about committing terrorist offences in Belmarsh.

I saw an extended interview with her and she was pretty disingenuous about beheadings and burning people alive, pretty much pushing it aside as propaganda to her mind but it doesn’t ring true really.

Being 15 doesn’t mean you’re excused from the consequences of your actions imo.
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eevo1969 said:
I should say that 15 years old is a mitigating factor but even so,..
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twotone said:
[QUOTE="eevo1969, post: 4934749, member: 9627"

Being 15 doesn’t mean you’re excused from the consequences of your actions imo.
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well you can’t have sex for a start mate
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Yes to all of the above.
She should face the consequences of her actions whether taken at 15 or older.
Being 15 is very definitely a mitigating factor. Criminal responsibility starts for certain crimes at 10 and increases with age. 15 is old enough to be charged with murder, I'm not sure about conspiracy to.
And yes, at 15 she wasn't old enough to consent to marriage and sex. In the UK at least. How that applies in another country with different laws I wouldn't know.
But what we can't do is dump her in a refugee camp for the rest of her life.
 
stevec67 said:
But what we can't do is dump her in a refugee camp for the rest of her life.
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This ^^^

She was a child and the UK government broke the law by making her stateless. They should not be allowed to get away with this as by rights they simply can't do that. Sadly though we all know they will get away with it and the large number of bigots that seem to have a voice in the UK these days will lap it up.
 
I suspect a lot around this case revolves on how true the vest thing is ("There were separate allegations that Begum stitched suicide bombers into explosive vests, so they could not be removed without detonating") and how strong the intelligence/sources the Gov have to say it was true. She has said it isn't true.

Ideally, the courts would tell us but presumably they can't as they can't divulge sources about this sort of thing. Perhaps it's covered in the closed judgment that we can't see.

In any case, I think the fact she is stateless will probably lead to her winning at some further court stage down the line.
 
notaclue said:
I suspect a lot around this case revolves on how true the vest thing is ("There were separate allegations that Begum stitched suicide bombers into explosive vests, so they could not be removed without detonating") and how strong the intelligence/sources the Gov have to say it was true. She has said it isn't true.

Ideally, the courts would tell us but presumably they can't as they can't divulge sources about this sort of thing. Perhaps it's covered in the closed judgment that we can't see.

In any case, I think the fact she is stateless will probably lead to her winning at some further court stage down the line.
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She'll only be able to come back to the UK with a change of government, wether that's the next labour government though I have my doubts.
 
Tony L said:
I’m seeing little evidence it wasn’t. The indisputable fact is a 15 year old child with British citizenship was brainwashed and groomed into a religious death cult. I’m prepared to bet a white child groomed into a violently racist or homophobic far-right group would have been treated very differently by this government. This would have been the case even if say the child had joint UK/EU or UK/American citizenship. This cruelty is very precisely targeted. The fact she was so clearly a groomed child really should be the start and end of this.
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It's interesting how you read something and it helps you see things in a different light.
I'd put money on it, that if it was a white girl the outcome would have been completely different.
 
notaclue said:
I suspect a lot around this case revolves on how true the vest thing is ("There were separate allegations that Begum stitched suicide bombers into explosive vests, so they could not be removed without detonating") and how strong the intelligence/sources the Gov have to say it was true. She has said it isn't true.
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To my mind even if that was true it does not in any way negate the fact she was only a child when groomed and brainwashed by a religious death cult. Religious programming is clearly very powerful and potentially exceptionally dangerous. I’m in no way denying this. I’m sure she’ll need a lot of de-programming, counselling and who knows what as she is clearly damaged, and I’m sure this isn’t cheap. Even so I’d far prefer to live in a country where child legal age was a legal absolute, not something to be abused for tacky political gain by a far-right government.

This is a remarkably clear thing to my mind. The key data is she was a child aged 15 at the point she left. The grooming and brainwashing almost certainly extended well before that point, but again that is irrelevant as 15 = child. This was not an adult decision. Citizenship should not be removed from children in any civilised country.
 
The Groan has a strong view on this subject...

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"The Sav" is in the firing line, where he rightfully belongs.

Checkout the BTL comments, right now in full flow over @ the Groan...

Steve Bell on the special immigration appeals commission – cartoon | Opinion | The Guardian
 
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