Shahinian Arc Polarity
- Thread starter Southgate
- Start date
oceanobsession
pfm Member
The + is nearest the fuse
Cheers oceanobsession
Cheers oceanobsession
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Long time since I have seen one off your posts. The important thing is to maintain the phase through the HiFi chain. That is speakers should 'push' when they are supposed to and not 'pull'. Some amps/preamps keep the signal in phase whilst others will invert the phase so in this latter case the + on the amp should go to the - on the speaker i.e. reverse polarity.
Or just suck it and see.........
Here is a primer if you are interested http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/absolutephase.html
Cheers,
DV
Or just suck it and see.........
Here is a primer if you are interested http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/absolutephase.html
Cheers,
DV
PaulMB
pfm Member
Surely it is only important that they be connected the same way? So both "push" or "pull" at the same time? If in doubt, one easy way of testing them is with any small battery, like out of a TV remote, and 2 bits of wire. A quick touch and the woofer can be seen to move out or in.
Long time no speak DV. I haven't had time for hifi in the last year or so, due to my little girl being born.
What would the speakers sound like being 180 out of phase? Would I instantly know about it?
They are connected up and sounding good to my ears, albeit the electronics are cold and still warming and 'opening up'.
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
You should read the primer that I linked to but here is an extract:-
"What happens, sonically speaking, when our system is out of phase? Most listeners experience a constricted soundstage with a pinched center-image and reduced lateral spread. In phase, the soundstage will open-up, giving a more rounded feel to the center image, and offer a more correct presentation of depth."
I know what it is like when children come along and that is why my '87 Troika is still sounding good. Or I should say ex-Troika as I sold the complete Linn vinyl playing stuff last week.
Cheers,
DV
If both speakers are out of phase, i.e. one with the pos to pos (amp to speaker) and the other with pos to neg you will get this and is VERY easy to hear. However if BOTH speakers are connected pos from the amp to neg to the speaker then it is NOT obvious and the stereo image remains. In fact I would love to hear anyone put their money onto picking out the difference. Now there's a challenge I will put my money on.
oceanobsession
pfm Member
The + is nearest the fuse, i was told this by pear audio, who brings them into the uk.
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
I sometimes wonder if people actually read these posts and since you haven't performed the experiment shouldn't make these sort of comments as it just adds 'noise' to the debate.
You should first read the article that I linked to and perhaps also do some research on the web. Then you would be in a better position to add your own views.
I suppose with poor low-end kit it may not be noticeable but I just don't know as this is not what I listen through but with high-end kit these effects can be heard.
Cheers,
DV
Interesting "noise" from you here...
1. I did read the link and do know what absolute phase, as opposed to out of phase, is all about.
2. I do not need to do research on the web as..well see point one, idiot.
3. I am in a very good position to quote any view I feel fit, not from "reading stuff on the web", but from actual trial and error. With my ears, which do a much better job than reading info on the web.
4. I dunno, but from actual LISTENING and trying and not reading and pontificating, as you do, I still maintain that you couldn't hear the difference between two speakers connected amplifier +to speaker + (both speakers connected the same way, or both speakers connected amp + to speaker - ) i.e. absolute phase, and anti-phase, i.e one connected amp + to speaker - and the other to amp + to speaker -.
My "low end" kit consists of Garrard 401, Mayware Formula 4 Mk 111, Benz Microglider , or newly bought Rega R 200 with same cart or the Ortofon Kontrapunkt a, or Thorens TD 145, TP 16 arm AT 09 MC, Michell Hyd Ref, SME 3009 mk2 imp, benz Microglider, AT OC9,Nagaoka or MP11 Boron, NVA AP 10 pre, NVA AP90 , NVA A80 mono's, or TVA 1x or Cayin K88t, or Meridian Pre's and Mono Powers I can't be arsed to go and look at to get the model numbers, Klipsch KG3's for fun and the spectacularly cheap and nasty Tannoy Dimension 12's.
I really can't be arsed to list the rest, only to say that I still maintain that you really can't tell the difference between any system connected in phase, both channels pos to pos or both pos to neg.
What on earth qualifies you to state that I haven't performed these tests? did you live with me all my life? are you my shadow? or just a presumptuous prat?
PaulMB
pfm Member
I've read all the above posts, and the linked article. But I still don't understand why, if both speakers are connected the same way, it should matter if they are connected one way or the other. If, say, a speaker cone vibrates at 1,000 hertz for a tenth of a second, so 100 vibrations back and forth, how on earth am I going to hear if the first vibration was backwards or forwards?
Obviously, it is quite clear why I'd hear a difference, and I have indeed clearly heard the difference, when one speaker is out of phase with the other.
Obviously, it is quite clear why I'd hear a difference, and I have indeed clearly heard the difference, when one speaker is out of phase with the other.
Re-Joyce
... Jason H that is.
Transients are not symmetrical - a reduction in pressure is different to an increase. Can we hear it? Some claim to.
Jason
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Hi Southgate,
Just to get an unbiased view why don't you give John Burns at Pear Audio a call or drop him an email, he is one of the most helpful people around.
This thread appears to be causing some debate so why not go direct to the importer.
Cheers
John
Just to get an unbiased view why don't you give John Burns at Pear Audio a call or drop him an email, he is one of the most helpful people around.
This thread appears to be causing some debate so why not go direct to the importer.
Cheers
John
John Burns is a most helpful chap indeed.
He has kindly emailed back and let me quote:
"Next to fuse and plus to plus is correct on both channels. I can normally tell if something is amiss by finding all the bass has gone from the middle and is inhabiting the space on either side of the speakers...
Given 'connectionitis' also exists in studios and mastering labs plus some producers actually choose the fully out of phase route it is difficult to say which is right and which is wrong for each record. "