SBL vs Kudos Super 20A
- Thread starter Tony. B
- Start date
yuckyamson
pfm Member
This is tough. I know there's a lot of SBL haters out there but if you have them and like them, they do a lot of things that are tough to beat. Taught, dynamic, and fun. Fast. Kind of a colour to the bottom end that's really delicious (if you're out there and about to write "COLOUR IS A BAD THING", please, stuff it up your keester. Everything is coloured to some degree it's a question of good or bad and how much.)
I think Neat's should be in your mind as possible along with the Kudos'. Also don't count out passive Linns so fast. You might like them, some of the newer offerings. Off the beaten path I keep recommending to people to try Tekton Designs but given it's directly shipped from the US people don't really take it seriously. The VFM that they pose, however, is straight up staggering. They have a wonderful nearly-studio-hi-fi-mix presentation, and great dynamics. Highly recommended.
I think Neat's should be in your mind as possible along with the Kudos'. Also don't count out passive Linns so fast. You might like them, some of the newer offerings. Off the beaten path I keep recommending to people to try Tekton Designs but given it's directly shipped from the US people don't really take it seriously. The VFM that they pose, however, is straight up staggering. They have a wonderful nearly-studio-hi-fi-mix presentation, and great dynamics. Highly recommended.
hifinutt
hifinutt
sunbeam is a good chap to ask . read his thoughts . there are several lovely examples in ads at the moment
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/...0a-with-linn-exakt.200321/page-2#post-3079277
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/...0a-with-linn-exakt.200321/page-2#post-3079277
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
SBL's are of course far too coloured and colour is a bad thing.... A mate bought some Kudos 20's and was really impressed at first but soon realised how bright they are and wished he'd kept his Spendor's...
I tried to make SBLs work for several years. They sounded absolutely fantastic on the 10% of music that is well recorded but exposed the rest ruthlessly, and I didn't want the hi-fi dictating what I listened to.
I moved to Shahinians, where I stayed for nearly 20 years. To my ears they were so much more musical. And they do decent bass.
I would prefer the Kudos speakers I've heard to SBLs but those were 606, 707 so different price league.
I moved to Shahinians, where I stayed for nearly 20 years. To my ears they were so much more musical. And they do decent bass.
I would prefer the Kudos speakers I've heard to SBLs but those were 606, 707 so different price league.
lencotweaker
Mostly dreaming of record players
The Kudos speakers I've heard have been way too brightly lit for me so unless you are looking for a very modern inyerface 'hifi' presentation then run away!
For something still quite modern sounding but much better balanced than Kudos I thought the new ATC SCM40's I heard the other day were good. I'd probably listen to some big Proacs too.
For something still quite modern sounding but much better balanced than Kudos I thought the new ATC SCM40's I heard the other day were good. I'd probably listen to some big Proacs too.
hifinutt
hifinutt
been reading a review tonight of the s20 in hi fi news may 2013 . always interesting to read about kudos speakers having been impressed with the 707 and 606 and strangely with the c30 although the latter seem to be marmite speakers according to what you read . must try and get to listen to a pair of s20 sometime
hifinutt
hifinutt
as I write this I have some proacs floorstanders rocking away . lovely big sound from such a modest size . I put some iso pucks under them and that has lifted them hugely , the timbre and balance of sound is lovely . you can really turn the wick up and enjoy them . I have them fully toed in and they really do the business . I have them in the system till something else arrives which has been ordered from the factory [british] but in the meantime I heartily endorse the proac suggestion . how much were these speakers you say .... 300 quid.... what an utter bargain !!
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Strangely enough my mate who had the kudos 20's and found them too bright has now got ATC SCM40's...
Natara
pfm Member
Speakers are a personal choice we all like differing things and so any advice you get will be heavily biased. Of course demo is the sensible option but if like me you only buy used this isn't always possible but if you buy sensibly you can always move or trade speakers for no financial loss, like a an open ended demo.
In the past two years I have gone from Q Acoutics Concept 20 (cost£250-sold£250) to Epos 14's (cost£150-sold£175) to Guru QM10's(cost£550-sold damaged£250) to Dynaudio X32 which cost £550 and traded in + £500 for Dynaudio Contour S3.4's.
So if you take the Guru's out of the equation which we blew playing too loud last Christmas but would also have sold for at least what I paid, then I have ended up with a beautiful pair of Dynaudio's that cost £4,500 in around 2005 for £1,000 paid incrementally over about 2 years.
And have owned and listened to some very good speakers along the way.
I have purchased on eBay but only ever paying cash on collection and also on this very fine site where I have only ever dealt with other hifi enthusiasts who have all been gentlemen.
so start off with a figure which the sale of the SBL's could negate if you so wish and delve into the used market and have some fun.
Great advice from hifinut some small Proac floor standers Motive 2's or one of the studio range would be an excellent strating point and then if you want try (I presume you have Naim amps) Neat, Dynaudio, Kudos there are a few brands that match well with Naim.
In the past two years I have gone from Q Acoutics Concept 20 (cost£250-sold£250) to Epos 14's (cost£150-sold£175) to Guru QM10's(cost£550-sold damaged£250) to Dynaudio X32 which cost £550 and traded in + £500 for Dynaudio Contour S3.4's.
So if you take the Guru's out of the equation which we blew playing too loud last Christmas but would also have sold for at least what I paid, then I have ended up with a beautiful pair of Dynaudio's that cost £4,500 in around 2005 for £1,000 paid incrementally over about 2 years.
And have owned and listened to some very good speakers along the way.
I have purchased on eBay but only ever paying cash on collection and also on this very fine site where I have only ever dealt with other hifi enthusiasts who have all been gentlemen.
so start off with a figure which the sale of the SBL's could negate if you so wish and delve into the used market and have some fun.
Great advice from hifinut some small Proac floor standers Motive 2's or one of the studio range would be an excellent strating point and then if you want try (I presume you have Naim amps) Neat, Dynaudio, Kudos there are a few brands that match well with Naim.
Patrick Dixon
Imagineer
[HAL 9000]Tony, what is it about your SBLs that you have become dissatisfied with?[/HAL 9000]
I have just gone through this exact thought, can I replace the SBL with 5k?
Simple answer for me, in my room, is no. Spending the 5k going Active with the SBL meant they out performed a number of the common 5k speaker choices including the Super20.
As noted above this a preference and is very subjective.
Now hearing the Kudos 707 Active was very nice ! But that’s 13k of speaker. Will be interesting to try the Super20 Active next year.
I would echo comments above. What is it about the SBL you don’t like.? For me it was a harsh top end, turned out moving from Olive power amps to classic series (passive) was the answer
Rob
Simple answer for me, in my room, is no. Spending the 5k going Active with the SBL meant they out performed a number of the common 5k speaker choices including the Super20.
As noted above this a preference and is very subjective.
Now hearing the Kudos 707 Active was very nice ! But that’s 13k of speaker. Will be interesting to try the Super20 Active next year.
I would echo comments above. What is it about the SBL you don’t like.? For me it was a harsh top end, turned out moving from Olive power amps to classic series (passive) was the answer
Rob
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
Sorry, I don’t understand - are you struggling a bit with the (somewhat confusing) new way of quoting?
Julf
Facts are our friends
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Back to the future?
Patrick Dixon
Imagineer
I was thinking more along the lines of this:
I have no idea how you embed youtube links on this new system ...
OK, I figured it out.
I have no idea how you embed youtube links on this new system ...
OK, I figured it out.
Merry Christmas everyone,
Thank you for your replies to my question. I asked because a few weeks ago a new friend dropped by and commented that he felt my SBLs didn’t have much bass compared to his Kudos Super 20As. I always thought that SBLs had bass when bass was present, they just didn’t add what wasn’t there in the first place. However, the more I considered it the more unsure I became. So, when he offered to bring his Super 20s over I happily agreed.
With my speakers carefully moved to the side, we played around a little to get his speakers set up in their correct place. I have to say that I was very impressed. There certainly was more bass and far more detail in the top end. We played numerous cds and I became convinced that the Super 20s were clearly superior to my SBLs. My friend said he was going away for Christmas so I should hang on to them for a few days until he got back.
I had a wonderful time listening to music until I tried some vinyl. Suddenly I became aware of increased pops and clicks, also a record that I’d never noticed was warped before was making bumping noises. Discs that had extended bass became boomy and the top end could easily become a little too bright. Now don’t get me wrong I think that the Kudos is probably superb in the right system. But not in mine!
Once my SBLs were back in position I played some cds and was knocked out how wonderful they sounded, so much better than usual. Then I twigged, I had completely forgotten to factor in the Avondale effect. That lovely man Les sent me a new, nuch improved, version of the power supply for my ACD3 and it went into the system just as the Super20s arrived. So, in effect, a lot of the improvement to the sound was coming not from the speakers but from the cd player.
I will never again question my beautiful SBLs.
Les you’re a genius, get well soon.
Thanks again,
Tony. B
LP12/Rubikon/Aro/Shelter 9000/TigerPaw Tranquility and Skale/Paradise four box phono stage/Avondale modified 72 with RSL boards/Avondale Voyagers/Avondale bi-wireable xovers for SBLs.
Thank you for your replies to my question. I asked because a few weeks ago a new friend dropped by and commented that he felt my SBLs didn’t have much bass compared to his Kudos Super 20As. I always thought that SBLs had bass when bass was present, they just didn’t add what wasn’t there in the first place. However, the more I considered it the more unsure I became. So, when he offered to bring his Super 20s over I happily agreed.
With my speakers carefully moved to the side, we played around a little to get his speakers set up in their correct place. I have to say that I was very impressed. There certainly was more bass and far more detail in the top end. We played numerous cds and I became convinced that the Super 20s were clearly superior to my SBLs. My friend said he was going away for Christmas so I should hang on to them for a few days until he got back.
I had a wonderful time listening to music until I tried some vinyl. Suddenly I became aware of increased pops and clicks, also a record that I’d never noticed was warped before was making bumping noises. Discs that had extended bass became boomy and the top end could easily become a little too bright. Now don’t get me wrong I think that the Kudos is probably superb in the right system. But not in mine!
Once my SBLs were back in position I played some cds and was knocked out how wonderful they sounded, so much better than usual. Then I twigged, I had completely forgotten to factor in the Avondale effect. That lovely man Les sent me a new, nuch improved, version of the power supply for my ACD3 and it went into the system just as the Super20s arrived. So, in effect, a lot of the improvement to the sound was coming not from the speakers but from the cd player.
I will never again question my beautiful SBLs.
Les you’re a genius, get well soon.
Thanks again,
Tony. B
LP12/Rubikon/Aro/Shelter 9000/TigerPaw Tranquility and Skale/Paradise four box phono stage/Avondale modified 72 with RSL boards/Avondale Voyagers/Avondale bi-wireable xovers for SBLs.