Right To Repair
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
djftw
Heterodox Member
Yes and no, you have legal responsibility beyond just making sure the vehicle passes an MOT...
...I took my car for MOT, passed. Told John I was a bit surprised as the rear shock absorbers weren't absorbing shocks and I only hadn't bothered getting them fixed sooner as the car hadn't moved for a few months courtesy of Covid. Apparently the bounce test isn't on the MOT anymore as it doesn't work with active suspension, they just check it's intact and attached without excessive play along with the rest of the suspension! But you can't ignore something like that just because it's not an MOT fail. The MOT just means it met a minimum standard at the time of test, it actually doesn't necessarily mean the vehicle is legally roadworthy even then! It would have been unlikely to come up unless I had an accident and was daft enough to admit I knew the shocks were bad and hadn't fixed them, but in addition to being an irresponsible asshat it would still constitute a failure of my legal duty to ensure the vehicle was roadworthy!
djftw
Heterodox Member
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Better implementation of a circuit Naim copied out of an electronics magazine?
The original Naim circuit came from an RCA semiconductors data book, I think the original design appeared in the late ‘50s.
https://www.updatemydynaco.com/documents/70WattRCAAmplifierDesign.pdf
Darren L
Egalitarian
Anything over 40 years old(on a rolling format ) or even if the V5c states that it's over 40 years old, so pre 1979 at present and pre 1980 in a couple of weeks time does not require either MOT or Tax.
But far more important than any legal requirement is your responsibility for your own safety and that of other road users.
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
I don’t know about other brands but JVC, up-to the amps I have, supplied service manuals with full schematics, board layouts and parts list. I’m talking AX Z1010 and AX 1...4. Think 1990.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
The original was better, it had the output inductor
RustyB
Registered Ginga
Given that trouble-shooting/repairing some electronics, eg SMD, can be difficult/costly, surely there's an argument, from both a practical and green perspective to mandate products to be built from easily replaceable boards/modules. So, for example, a small board/module ends up in landfill, rather than the whole component.
wd40addict
pfm Member
The 90s was where the rot set in and not just in Hi-Fi. Companies like HP who had once produced excellent service manuals for their test gear stopped releasing circuit diagrams etc. Presumably an accountant said "what are we doing this for? If the equipment goes wrong either we fix it or sell them a new one!"
Naim never released circuits, but the amount of gear out there meant it eventually got reversed engineered.
In Naim's defence in their pre venture capital days their service costs were reasonable and they will still fix older equipment (unlike Linn).
Basically the West's model of economies based on consumer spending means it's in the government's interest for the time from leaving the shop to being landfill to be as short as possible.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Apparently you didn't look at the context of my post.
Timcat
pfm Member
In the UK, the owner of a patented article is entitled to repair it by replacing parts etc., without risking infringing a patent for the whole article, so long as the repair work does not amount to making the article afresh. The lead case concerned a bulk container that comprised a plastic bottle housed within a metal cage. The bottles wear out but the cages tends not to do so. The Supreme Court (UK) held that replacing the original bottle with a third party manufactured bottle did not amount to making the whole container and, thus, did not infringe a patent for the container. If anyone is interested, here's a link to the judgement:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2011-0159.html
The most relevant part of the judgement is in para. 66.
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2011-0159.html
The most relevant part of the judgement is in para. 66.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
If you are that puzzled by the lack og details I can happily add it was a 'Philips' badged DVD videorecorder. And many years ago when rather less information was available on the net. Although I think I did raise it at the time on usenet.
It was unrepairable because Philips no longer provided the special parts. Their 'solution' to the EU requirement was simply to tell me that they'd sell me a new - different and less capable - recorder at its wholesale price.
Hope that helps.
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
That would be ideal but the components required to provide the features sets demanded by people today pretty much mandated the use of SMD.
Tony L
Administrator
SMD really isn’t a deal-breaker. I’ve watched hours and hours of folk working on computers and, other than being small, it is not hard. You need a steady hand, a £200 microscope, a £200 hot air station, the correct amount of flux*, and a steady hand. The reason it is viewed as ‘hard’ is because people who haven’t done it think it is impossible! I was certainly guilty of this before spending some very considerable time researching. The key requirement is documentation, schematics, test procedures etc, just as for any complex electronics. Sure you can’t just look at it and see a familiar circuit topology like a Mullard 5/10 or whatever, but that does not make it landfill material.
*Any viewers of Louis Rossmann’s channel will know what this is!
PS We have a couple of people here on pfm who can do this stuff to my knowledge, i.e. there will be far more lurking. It is possible.
*Any viewers of Louis Rossmann’s channel will know what this is!
PS We have a couple of people here on pfm who can do this stuff to my knowledge, i.e. there will be far more lurking. It is possible.
djftw
Heterodox Member
djftw
Heterodox Member
I don't have anything like Jez's level of expertise, but I have fixed a few iPhones in the same way an Apple Shop would, i.e. you replace the whole board or assembly where the fault is, and that is bloody fiddly enough. Apple do not make getting parts easy through them though, which in the vein of this thread I think they could use some encouragement to. I sort of understand their thinking with their 3rd party repairer certification scheme, but in practice I'm not sure it achieves what they intend. And the parts mysteriously show up on eBay anyway, but you run the risk of getting a non-genuine part or non-working part going that route...
djftw
Heterodox Member
Can you point me in the direction of the directive you are referring to? Sad act PIR graduate that I am I'm on the Commission website reading up about "sustainable product policy and ecodesign" and can't actually find this requirement? Not trying to argue with you just curious! It looks like some fairly robust requirements are coming into force for various categories of white goods in 2021 including for spares to be available for 10 years, which is surely good news whatever the hell happens with Brexit? However they get here, UK versions are still going to be basically the same products made for the EU market, we might just have to pay taxes, duties and tariffs to bring in spares from the mainland!If you are that puzzled by the lack og details I can happily add it was a 'Philips' badged DVD videorecorder. And many years ago when rather less information was available on the net. Although I think I did raise it at the time on usenet.
It was unrepairable because Philips no longer provided the special parts. Their 'solution' to the EU requirement was simply to tell me that they'd sell me a new - different and less capable - recorder at its wholesale price.
Hope that helps.
djftw
Heterodox Member
Absolutely, I was agreeing with you Jez. I was just saying that that is fiddly enough when you're talking about tech on that scale! It's worth doing on newer iPhones that are expensive to replace, but a three year old iPhone SE is worth what, £50? I'm not sure I'd bother except maybe out of poverty or boredom!
Tony L
Administrator
The simple fact is SMD can be reworked. This is absolutely indisputable. There is little in a typical modern hi-fi component more complex than you’d find in a 30 year old Amiga yet there are independent repair techs working on cutting edge modern laptop, smartphone and tablet technology right across the planet. I have no idea why this in even being debated here, a simple search on YouTube will find quite literally thousands of hours of visual evidence of people, including many amateurs, fixing stuff with hot-air rework stations.
Please do not allow this thread to be derailed by agendas. The facts are clear. The core issue is parts, schematics, documentation, test and diagnosis procedures etc. With these repair is possible. Without it is not.
This is an important topic and whilst I’m obviously a vintage audio advocate myself the core issue is way, way bigger than that. SMD does not have to equal landfill!
Please do not allow this thread to be derailed by agendas. The facts are clear. The core issue is parts, schematics, documentation, test and diagnosis procedures etc. With these repair is possible. Without it is not.
This is an important topic and whilst I’m obviously a vintage audio advocate myself the core issue is way, way bigger than that. SMD does not have to equal landfill!
With modern electronics trouble is that part prices going down, work price up. Also there are software related issues. Many perfectly good electronics is not needed anymore because they cannot run modern software. For example my perfectly good phone already can be put on slow motion occasionally by bloody heavy adverts on web pages. What idiots are making them, I do not know, and if my phone breaks down, I will have to make decision which even not related to repair cost. The same can happen to streamers or everything in audio with computing involved. Look at AV receivers, does it worth to repair them? Every other year some next big thing happens. Same about TV, eh. Digital amplifiers, on which generation we are now? Dacs, same people changing them every six months.
It is good to have rights to repair, but first you have to be attached to things to want them to be repaired. It is becoming more and more difficult nowadays.
It is good to have rights to repair, but first you have to be attached to things to want them to be repaired. It is becoming more and more difficult nowadays.