reviews of vintage audio by cheshire audio
- Thread starter stuwils
- Start date
Old Valve Git
pfm Member
Yup, been enjoying those too.
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
I really enjoy that channel. A great mix of old and new stuff and some good advice on set up etc mixed in.
its also good to have a dealer's perspective.
@GT Audio - Thats far too strict a definition of Vintage and Classic Graham..... I think many of us would regard 80's kit (for example) as 'classic'
its also good to have a dealer's perspective.
@GT Audio - Thats far too strict a definition of Vintage and Classic Graham..... I think many of us would regard 80's kit (for example) as 'classic'
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Unless you were born in the 80's like me, where pre 1950s is antique, vintage is pre 1980s, classic is pre-2000s.
Believe it or not, some things are relative.
Edit: just to clarify, I, too, pulled those dates out of my nether-regions.
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t agree with that at all. To my mind anything that is highly desirable, sought after and collectable 20-30 or more years later is ‘classic audio’, e.g. I’d certainly put a lot of stuff from the ‘70s and ‘80s in there. I view it as a market-defined term, and if something is worth serious money 30+ years later, likely far more than it cost new, then it can’t not be in that category!
Darren L
Egalitarian
If classic or vintage hifi is anything like classic or vintage cars or bikes it will be a rolling date determined by the age and to an extent quality or desirability, when I was 17 a MK2 Escort was just a 10 year old motor that was affordable to buy and insure, probably about £500 and Group 3 insurance, same as Minis, nowadays you'd pay at least in the thousands for one and a RS would make well over £10K. Same with bikes, especially LC's.
My best mate bought a mk1 Superten about 15 years ago, maybe slightly more, it cost him £1350, you could easily add another £2K onto that price nowadays. A bit more on topic , I bought Nait (red led) amp in 98 for £40, they now make Lol prices.
My best mate bought a mk1 Superten about 15 years ago, maybe slightly more, it cost him £1350, you could easily add another £2K onto that price nowadays. A bit more on topic , I bought Nait (red led) amp in 98 for £40, they now make Lol prices.
Tony L
Administrator
There are also obviously many classics you can still buy new, e.g. Klipschorns, the Ortofon SPU, Denon DL-103 etc. I’d likely include things in their ‘mk II’ designation too, e.g. the Nagaoka MP carts (pretty much unchanged since the ‘70s despite an added zero to the name), Rega’s current RB300 variant etc. I certainly look at my MP-500 as a classic 1970s cart. A contemporary to things like the Grace F9E, Ortofon M25FL, Shure V15/III & IV etc, all of which are sadly no longer made.
It is easy to lose track of time, but things such as a Nait, RB300, A60 etc are all 40 years old! Getting on for half a century!
It is easy to lose track of time, but things such as a Nait, RB300, A60 etc are all 40 years old! Getting on for half a century!
Trouble is that most audio equipment post 70s and 80s isn't highly desirable. A good guide is to see what audio equipment prices go for in Japan. If equipment isn't listed there, then it isn't desirable.
What is desirable? Think Garrard 301/401, Thorens TD124, Leak, Quad and Radford valve amplifiers, Tannoy, Lowther and Quad ESL speakers and original LS3/5a's for British makes. There are other makes but these were sold in such small numbers as to be in the unobtainium category. Check out John Howes's museum and the book he wrote on the subject, that will give you a guide on this subject...
I used to deal in the vintage and classic market in the 1990s/2000s as I used to restore a lot of that equipment. Back then no one wanted anything with transistors in. It was pretty much worthless and you couldn't even give the stuff away, like Leak Stereo 30 and 70 amplifiers...
How can vintage be pre 1980s when 99.99% of electronics was transistor based back then. The transistor is modern technology so it can't be vintage. Vintage is valve or tube based and would be pre 1950s...
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Well, if we are to argue under the arbitrary criteria that you just made up and introduced just now, old devices based on old technology are antiques, not vintage.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Here's something that will blow your mind: "vintage" is whatever is commonly accepted to be vintage, whether you agree or not.
Tony L
Administrator
The market has changed hugely since then. The better 1970s Marantz, Pioneer, Sony, Sansui, Luxman, Kenwood, McIntosh etc kit is now all very desirable (it never stopped being so in America and much of the world), as is Sugden, Quad, Naim, Exposure etc solid state. Same goes for TD-150s, TD-125s, LP12s, countless of the better Japanese direct drives, LS3/5As and other BBC monitors, Gale 401s, countless Tannoys, JBLs, Magnapans etc. The Leak Stereo 30, 70 etc are good indicators that the market knows what it is doing, they weren’t rated at the time either! Time always sorts things out.
PS One of the most important lessons I learned as a record dealer is to never confuse the marketplace with your own taste! It is fine if you don’t rate something, that is irrelevant and has no bearing on its value or collectable status.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Japan is knee deep in 1970s JBLs. And they go for a lot more than they do here or in the US.
Does that make them vintage? Dunno. Maybe it does just boil down to when you were born.
The main reason the market has changed and a lot of the brands you mention have become popular now is due to the unavailability of the older more desirable stuff and the high prices they fetch if they ever do become available. The classic comment I used to get was "why don't the British value their equipment more?" as the Japanese and Italians just used to snap it up and pay good money for it, where as people here just didn't value it. Just as the Lenco GL75 suddenly became desirable, because the 301s, 401s and TD124s went through the roof price wise. The Lencos were the next best thing so to speak, but that doesn't make them equal in performance, or as desirable. As you say the market is the indicator, so are the Japanese and the Italians buying up all the Sudgen, Naim, and Exposure amplifiers and all of their direct drive turntables?
Cupuacu
Militis
I'm well over 60 - does that make me vintage? Like the word "Old", Vintage is just a label and has no real definition. My hifi is mostly from the 70s and 80s, and to my kids who are in their 20s, it's ancient technology, and when I die they will either chuck it in a skip or flog it off at inflated prices to those who still hang on to hifi as the assumed best way to listen to music. Moreover, although I am still cycle racing as a Supervet - they prefer electric bikes and scooters. I'd really like a Citroen SM, but prices have gone through the roof despite them being unreliable and a pain to service, but most people seem obsessed with changing their cars every 3 years for the latest technology whilst people like me laugh whenever a keyless entry car gets stolen from the street (would you leave a bag containing £50K sitting outside your house?)
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Or the antiques aren't actually as desirable to as many people anymore.
