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Playing with phono stage settings (Gold Note)

Paul L

Paul L

coffee lounge for me
I haven’t really done this and it’s time to do so with my PH10 and current moving coil Hana ML. The variables are ohms load, gain in db and (can’t remember what they call them) gain profiles such as RIAA, CBS.

Has anyone done this and what have you found?

I’m thinking that where I make a judgement on the quality of a record it may be that it I’m wrong without experimenting with the variables.
 
With its internal impedance of (a low) 8-Ohms, the HANNA ML is recommended to be run with 100R Impedance Load.

I suggest that - if your phono stage allows - it would be worth trying 50R and upwards, too. (50R, 60R, 70R, etc....)

Bear in mind that the heavier the impedance load (applied with a lower Ohm number) may allow you to run the cart with lighter VTF. In general, this lighter VTF - say 1.6g instead of the traditional 2.0g - will help get the cartridge singing - and dramatically lower surface noise.

The lighter VTF also bodes well for low-wear on your precious vinyl!

Lastly, I find quality headphones tend to reveal more, when I am setting up carts - as all in-room loudspeakers have much higher levels of distortion. I have found that whatever cart settings sound superb on headphones, will translate to stunning loudspeaker performance, every time!

Just my own experiences with MC carts...

Enjoy and please report! :cool:👍
 
SONDEKNZ said:
The lighter VTF also bodes well for low-wear on your precious vinyl!
Click to expand...
Hana ML is not a greatest tracker at 2gram VTF -70um and lowering VTF would only decrease this number leading to mis-tracking and increase stylus and records wear.
Before trying to lower recommended tracking force I'd definitely ask Hana what is the minimum before trying , their specs are bit sketchy giving 2g recommendation, probably you can go slightly lower but 0.4g seems to be a lot .
Have you checked trackability of Hana ML at this value?
 
slawekt said:
Hana ML is not a greatest tracker at 2gram VTF -70um and lowering VTF would only decrease this number leading to mis-tracking and increase stylus and records wear.
Before trying to lower recommended tracking force I'd definitely ask Hana what is the minimum before trying , their specs are bit sketchy giving 2g recommendation, probably you can go slightly lower but 0.4g seems to be a lot .
Have you checked trackability of Hana ML at this value?
Click to expand...

Please note that my suggestion of lighter VTF is ONLY an option in combination with heavier (than recommended) Impedance loading.

The heavier impedance loading has a stiffening effect on most cartridges - effectively lowering compliance - helping to explain the reduced surface noise and reduced groove wall collisions, at the heavier loading.

(Based upon my own endless experiments… 😉)

Whilst I have observed the repeatedly on my own MC carts, I cannot test the HANA ML in this regard.

Perhaps you - or the OP - can conduct this test and report?
 
slawekt said:
Can you elaborate on how electrical loading affects compliance?
Click to expand...
No. I can’t explain it.

I read about it a few years ago. Tried it and (repeatedly) observed it to be true.

Good enough for me.

Perhaps you could try?
 
I’m running at 1.8g from my trying lower and higher a short while ago and on the Rega RP10 the vta is what it is.

On the PH10 I can try 100/200/470 ohms, I can change the gain by -3db/0db/+3db maybe more. I can also change curves to suit different mastering. As I say I’m just beginning to get curious and interested if others have done so and what they have found.

Thanks for the replies so far in any case and I won’t ignore other areas suggested if feasible in my set-up.
 
SONDEKNZ said:
No. I can’t explain it.

I read about it a few years ago. Tried it and (repeatedly) observed it to be true.

Good enough for me.

Perhaps you could try?
Click to expand...
Do you remember the source of this information?
If I have bit of time today I try to test THD on 315Hz track with say 50ohm/2.1gram and 100/2.5gram on Ortofon Cadenza cartridge but results are quite predictable IMO:)
 
Paul L said:
On the PH10 I can try 100/200/470 ohms
Click to expand...
Try all 3 and see which you like best , always you can drop loading -you can buy RCA splitter and install say 100ohm loading plug using 100ohm setting on GN to give you 50ohm if you like to try lower settings than available.
 
slawekt said:
Do you remember the source of this information?
If I have bit of time today I try to test THD on 315Hz track with say 50ohm/2.1gram and 100/2.5gram on Ortofon Cadenza cartridge but results are quite predictable IMO:)
Click to expand...
Good idea! A reminder that heavier impedance loading usually demands lighter VTF, to bring the cart back on-song.

I feel sure you will notice the reduced surface noise immediately. It is unmissable!

Sorry, I don’t recall the source of the info. Like your initial reaction on this forum the suggestion was treated with much (healthy) scepticism on that forum.

Nevertheless, I tried it - repeatedly - and have observed it to be true.

I feel sure that subsequent generations will refer to us as the generation that sincerely believed that every secret had been revealed and understood.

…I don’t believe it! 😉
 
@Paul L - from Gold Note "Nine different loading options [10Ω, 22Ω, 47Ω, 100Ω, 220Ω, 470Ω, 1000Ω, 22KΩ, 47KΩ] and four different gain options selectable [0dB, ± 3dB, +6dB]'.

I have the PH-10 and PS-10 PSU (great upgrade) and had the Hana ML. I went with 100 ohms and 0dB. The curves are for old pressings cut (or whatever) using different parameters. Note that RIAA has a 'plus' enhancement which lifts the treble if I remember rightly.
 
Thanks all.

Myles I'm inclined to start with your settings 100ohm/0db and experiment with the curves which I've not done, it’s only been set on RIAA. And then take it from there. I will also try on headphones as Sondeknz suggested (Audeze LCD-X into my Yamaha A-S3000).
 
Also worth noting that reduced cartridge compliance caused by heavier impedance loading may ONLY be beneficial where the arm is actually a bit too heavy - than is optimal - for that particular cart… 😵
 
SONDEKNZ said:
Good idea! A reminder that heavier impedance loading usually demands lighter VTF, to bring the cart back on-song.

I feel sure you will notice the reduced surface noise immediately. It is unmissable!

Sorry, I don’t recall the source of the info. Like your initial reaction on this forum the suggestion was treated with much (healthy) scepticism on that forum.

Nevertheless, I tried it - repeatedly - and have observed it to be true.

I feel sure that subsequent generations will refer to us as the generation that sincerely believed that every secret had been revealed and understood.

…I don’t believe it! 😉
Click to expand...
Well, results are as expected, with lighter VTF and increased loading/lower value- 2.1gram/50ohm cartridge tracking ability is not as good as with higher VTF/lowered loading 2.5gram/100ohm - all measurements outside from the null points
50um track , both look similar so not too bad
2.1g/50R
xrC3lJt.png


2.5g/100R
i5AzoCh.png


Let's try higher modulation, still not bad
60u
2.1/50R
KpUqilq.png

2.5g/100R
jjJ37jU.png


and some more modulation-70u track
2.1/50R anti-skate has to be adjusted for stylus to stay in the groove , 2.5/100R tracks with no issues with normal settings
2.1g/50R
kD8P8gZ.png

2.5g/100R
jBpqEou.png
 
Sorry about thread de-railing with so hated graphs but I'd definitely advise to stay within recommended tracking range as too low VTF would definitely make some harm to your precious records
 
slawekt said:
Sorry about thread de-railing with so hated graphs but I'd definitely advise to stay within recommended tracking range as too low VTF would definitely make some harm to your precious records
Click to expand...
Agreed. The comment made about lowering vtf to preserve vinyl is way off and should be ignored.
 
Ignore recommended loading (ohms), you can do no harm by using far higher and here, into a Michell Iso, far higher was (far) better.

As for an electrical property affecting a mechanical one....................................................the loading in a phono stage affecting the suspension material in a cart' 😲
 
Vinny said:
As for an electrical property affecting a mechanical one....................................................the loading in a phono stage affecting the suspension material in a cart' 😲
Click to expand...
The strength of the magnetic field affects the resistance of the cantilever to movement, that's how MC cartridges work.
 
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