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Oscar Peterson's "Night Train"

tuga

tuga

Legal Alien
I am unable to enjoy my (ripped) CD of Oscar Peterson's "Night Train".

The treble is a splashy, pumping, mess...

It's a '97 Verve Master Edition digipak like this one:

R-8826374-1469883526-3540.jpeg.jpg


Can someone recommend a better CD mastering or is this a problem of the original tapes?


Thanks,

R
 
IIRC the original tapes have some problems with this title, though I remember comparing the original West German standard jewel case against the digipac you have and preferring/keeping the former. Can’t remember exactly why though, but usually the later ones sound a bit compressed and ‘loud’, though not badly so. They are perfectly decent IMO unlike say RVG Edition Blue Notes. I've got a 1960s UK stereo original too which is IIRC better again, but I’ll have to dig it out to really assess it.
 
Tony L said:
IIRC the original tapes have some problems with this title, though I remember comparing the original West German standard jewel case against the digipac you have and preferring/keeping the former. Can’t remember exactly why though, but usually the later ones sound a bit compressed and ‘loud’, though not badly so. They are perfectly decent IMO unlike say RVG Edition Blue Notes. I've got a 1960s UK stereo original too which is IIRC better again, but I’ll have to dig it out to really assess it.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I agree with the RVGs by the way; awful stuff.
 
Yes, it's the recording. The cymbals are a swishy, phased mess. I also prefer the late 1980s Verve CD. I'm sure the Master Edition liner notes state that the problem lies with the recording. It is possible that the higher resolution of that remaster emphasizes the flaws as well as providing more detail in other elements.
 
I thought there was a sleeve note on this one pointing out that the engineers were unable to do anything about Thigpen's close-miked rivet cymbal....

(Postscript - Page 3 of the booklet, last paragraph)
 
I’m currently playing my CD of Night Train via the upstairs system (Marantz SACD, Audio Synthesis ProPassion, Leak Stereo 20 and JR149s). The CD is an early West German Verve, black text on silver-to-centre disc, smooth-case catalogue number 821724-2 YH. It sounds fine to me. Nothing horrible about the top end at all. It is a quiet disc and has some audible tape-hiss and nice natural dynamics, i.e. I suspect they just threaded the tape up and pressed record to master this one with minimal digital post processing shenanigans. The only odd thing is the first two tracks are in the wrong order, it starts with ‘C Jam Blues’. The drummer likes his ride cymbal, but it is anything but a splashy mess here, its just somewhere out behind the right 149 with the rest of the kit. I’d not have singled it out for attention on this system (which is very natural and clear up top, not bright or forward at all).
 
Tony L said:
I’m currently playing my CD of Night Train via the upstairs system (Marantz SACD, Audio Synthesis ProPassion, Leak Stereo 20 and JR149s). The CD is an early West German Verve, black text on silver-to-centre disc, smooth-case catalogue number 821724-2 YH. It sounds fine to me. Nothing horrible about the top end at all. It is a quiet disc and has some audible tape-hiss and nice natural dynamics, i.e. I suspect they just threaded the tape up and pressed record to master this one with minimal digital post processing shenanigans. The only odd thing is the first two tracks are in the wrong order, it starts with ‘C Jam Blues’. The drummer likes his ride cymbal, but it is anything but a splashy mess here, its just somewhere out behind the right 149 with the rest of the kit. I’d not have singled it out for attention on this system (which is very natural and clear up top, not bright or forward at all).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed description. I am considering getting either that CD and/or the HDTracks download.
 
formbypc said:
I thought there was a sleeve note on this one pointing out that the engineers were unable to do anything about Thigpen's close-miked rivet cymbal....

(Postscript - Page 3 of the booklet, last paragraph)
Click to expand...

My CDs are stored in another country so I can't access the booklet. Thanks.
 
florette69 said:
Yes, it's the recording. The cymbals are a swishy, phased mess. I also prefer the late 1980s Verve CD. I'm sure the Master Edition liner notes state that the problem lies with the recording. It is possible that the higher resolution of that remaster emphasizes the flaws as well as providing more detail in other elements.
Click to expand...
Cheers for that.
 
Just tried the UK 1st press vinyl. Different system, but I’d say the CD mastering I have is barking up the same tree. On both the kit metalwork is certainly there, and maybe just a little more prominent than one would ideally like, but it is not bad or offensive in any way. It is in perspective and dynamically intact (i.e. not butchered by compression). Annoyingly my vinyl, whilst looking like a very strong EX, does have a fair bit of constant noise so I assume it was played with something less than ideal in its past, still sounds pretty good though.
 
Great LP but both my original stereo and mono versions and also a modern black to black reissue all have the same issues I believe there is quite an expensive ORG double LP from 2009 that I have considered buying but at £40 - 50 it is a bit much but if I heard it first and it sounded much better than the copies I have I would splash out because it is great, great LP.
 
My favourite Oscar Peterson by a good distance is the ‘Exclusively For My Friends’ sequence of albums he recorded for MPS but was unable to release until the ‘70s as he was still under contract to Verve. Amazing stuff just so full of life and vitality. They have recently been reissued on both vinyl and CD (link) and whilst I can’t speak for this particular mastering (I have the earlier 4xCD box that splits the albums awkwardly across discs and ‘Action’ on original vinyl) the recording is very good and it really is some of the best piano jazz ever captured. Apparently they were Oscar Peterson’s favourite recordings of his career too.
 
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tuga said:
My CDs are stored in another country so I can't access the booklet. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Ah, OK.

"Thigpen's rivet cymbal was recorded at almost point-blank range, and has sonically dominated every issue of Night Train. It may be found objectionable to listeners, but is indelible without a significant diminishment of the trio's presence"
 
formbypc said:
Ah, OK.

"Thigpen's rivet cymbal was recorded at almost point-blank range, and has sonically dominated every issue of Night Train. It may be found objectionable to listeners, but is indelible without a significant diminishment of the trio's presence"
Click to expand...

Cheers!
 
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