James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I much preferred a pair of 135s fronted by 52 to a single 250 driving passive loudspeakers.
Gaius
pfm Member
Totally get that. However that is a £6K amp as opposed to say a 72/Hi/250 which is a £2K amp as opposed to a Nait 2 which is a £750 amp.
Nait 1 and 2 are sweet things for sure. Remember Flatpopely's 135's being out-performed by a couple of JVC integrateds in a later A/B resulting in a bit of an epic thread…………..
Certainly true and concurred. The term "better" represents very little as it is mainly driven by personal preference and as you have aptly put it, system matching.
Does edgier sound translate to an unrefined sound? Some folks may prefer this unrefinement if this trait provides more excitement to them.
Thanks @Njb -- much appreciated!! It's a very interesting analogy you use. In the past I often read that Olive boxes are more "musical", which I didn't really grasp. Then people often say it's musical when to "tap your foot". This doesn't really help me either, since I tap my foot when I enjoy music; and this can be on a rather crappy system (including the radio in our economy car...). Certainly it doesn't require expensive Naim boxes... I was often left with the impression that musical is often used to differentiate Naim from "clinical" sound, and it was often (at least implicitly) suggested that clinical is too much detail at the expense of musicality...
Does this all make sense? I guess I like detail, which I feel is important for orchestral music in particular -- that is why I paired a Black box with a Hugo and PMC. Does this make me "suitable" for Olive boxes? I guess the edginess you describe, I could enjoy. I am thinking, as a future project after some building work, about a couple of Olive boxes (shoe size) in my study. Though this might distract me from working on a occasion...
Intersting , for me the sweet spots in a CB Olive world were
Nait II though my serviced Onix 20 is a keeper
42.5 and I'll come back to that later
Pre-fix Hi-cap best phono stage ever ( love Hi-caps full stop )
110, 180 ,250 With a personal preferance for the 250 but only because I like the slightly fuller sound and yes a 180 is to close for confort .
Unless the kit you are using has a service history it's hard to know what your listening to . A pal had a 160 and I hated it dreadful boring thing worse than a pre- DR Classic but had it been serviced ?
And then theres the fact that early pre-amps had as many as three mother board suppliers and they all sounded different which might be why I perfered the sound of my 42 to my mates 32 .
I get you on the detail aspect. I listen to pop/rock with a fondness for 80s electronica and I want to be able to follow a bass line etc when the mood takes me. Separation of the different instruments and/or elements matters to me. However, mostly I want the music to come together.Thanks @Njb -- much appreciated!! It's a very interesting analogy you use. In the past I often read that Olive boxes are more "musical", which I didn't really grasp. Then people often say it's musical when to "tap your foot". This doesn't really help me either, since I tap my foot when I enjoy music; and this can be on a rather crappy system (including the radio in our economy car...). Certainly it doesn't require expensive Naim boxes... I was often left with the impression that musical is often used to differentiate Naim from "clinical" sound, and it was often (at least implicitly) suggested that clinical is too much detail at the expense of musicality...
Does this all make sense? I guess I like detail, which I feel is important for orchestral music in particular -- that is why I paired a Black box with a Hugo and PMC. Does this make me "suitable" for Olive boxes? I guess the edginess you describe, I could enjoy. I am thinking, as a future project after some building work, about a couple of Olive boxes (shoe size) in my study. Though this might distract me from working on a occasion...
I had a basic CB system for 25 years, bought it from a local dealer. He was trying to push me towards a Quad pre/power combo for a similar price and, no offence to Quad fans, I could not see it his way. I am not talking top range here, I bought the 62/90 with Epos ES14s, and their energy and excitement hit the hairs on the back of my neck. Admittedly, the 90 was not really man enough to wring the necks of the ES14s but it did enough to let me get a taste of the next level up.
When I moved to the continent then I got back into hifi after a gap of many years. Given the logistics of getting kit serviced etc, I found a nearby dealer and over the years I moved through a few black boxes from 202/155 to 202/200 then 282/200 and now 282/250. I recently auditioned the 250DR but it did not hit the spot for me, which was a surprise. I really wanted to like it, but it sounded different and I reasoned that perhaps my speakers (Dynaudio Focus 160s) were a better match to the 250.
It would be fun to service the 62/90 and see how it sounded. In a small room system it would be cost effective and probably knock spots off many modern one box alternatives.
Where does the Nait 5i-2 fit in? Is that New Naim or somewhere inbetween old and new?
Also, I found the Nait and 12/160 was not tiresome and relentless, unlike Olive 72/140, so is there Old Naim and Very Old Naim, or maybe it's just product dependant and we can't really generalise?
Does the DR tech change things enough to make it Very New Naim?
Also, I found the Nait and 12/160 was not tiresome and relentless, unlike Olive 72/140, so is there Old Naim and Very Old Naim, or maybe it's just product dependant and we can't really generalise?
Does the DR tech change things enough to make it Very New Naim?
Nic Robinson
Moderator
I don't really know the current range, but have owned quite a few of the CB boxes over the years. Is there enough "house sound" remaining to make this discussion relevant? Put another way, are there other makes now which can be seen as more of a linear development of the presentation we all aspired to in the day?
Where does the Nait 5i-2 fit in? Is that New Naim or somewhere inbetween old and new?
Also, I found the Nait and 12/160 was not tiresome and relentless, unlike Olive 72/140, so is there Old Naim and Very Old Naim, or maybe it's just product dependant and we can't really generalise?
Does the DR tech change things enough to make it Very New Naim?
Interesting:
Early Naim (BD)
Very old Naim (CB)
Old Naim (Olive)
Slimline Naim (Olive)
Classic Naim (black boxes)
Modern Naim (Uniti)
Statements
Caledon1297
pfm Member
JV era (some might say proper/real Naim?) - CB & Olive
Modern Naim - Black
Of course, it's said that JV 'signed off' on the NAP 500, which is Black, and some might argue that since the loss of Naim's independence, introduction of Statement/DR etc., it's now 'second generation' Black?
FWIW, when I came back to Naim, I did numerous comparisons between Olive and Black, and without exception, preferred Olive. Black seemed to my ears to be a somewhat more mainstream/watered-down version of 'the real thing'; a bit better at the superficial hi-fi stuff, but less good musically, IMO.
Ultimately, though, as ever, it's all in the ear of the beholder (but I seem to prefer JV era, though I've yet to experience any CB).
Modern Naim - Black
Of course, it's said that JV 'signed off' on the NAP 500, which is Black, and some might argue that since the loss of Naim's independence, introduction of Statement/DR etc., it's now 'second generation' Black?
FWIW, when I came back to Naim, I did numerous comparisons between Olive and Black, and without exception, preferred Olive. Black seemed to my ears to be a somewhat more mainstream/watered-down version of 'the real thing'; a bit better at the superficial hi-fi stuff, but less good musically, IMO.
Ultimately, though, as ever, it's all in the ear of the beholder (but I seem to prefer JV era, though I've yet to experience any CB).
After 3years only with the original Nait 5 they needed something more powerfull, simpler and cheaper in manufacture
Cleverly named Nait 5i ("i" for "improved" most people thought)
Basically a poweramp with passive volume, no PSU upgrades and less inputs