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adamdea

You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Herb Reichert:

"I would never blame an audiophile for thinking that specialty audio cables sound mostly the same and that buying expensive wires would be foolish. That view is justifiable because it reflects most audiophiles' experience. I felt that way myself until one day in the 1980s I went off-piste and experienced my first silver-wire cables from Kimber Kable.

Ray Kimber, who I met somehow through the Audio Amateur magazine crowd, called to suggest I try a loom of his new braided silver wire. His cables turned my well-behaved, even-keeled system into a macrodynamic, microdetailed fantasia. No wolves or mammoths appeared, but the clouds vanished, and the sun came out.

Before that silver sun came out, my system was wired with various gauges of generic Mouser "hookup wire," which I had discovered by using it for point-to-point wiring in the amplifiers I was building. Mouser's stranded polyvinyl-coated copper did not appear to stifle or grossly pollute signal currents, so I began fashioning all my interconnects and speaker cables from it, in my preferred colors, with Switchcraft connectors.

Changing from Mouser copper to Kimber silver interconnects and speaker cables threw a brighter, purer light on every recording. Atmospherics and the specters of performers became a more prominent part of the listening experience. Equally noticeable was how silver added something akin to a shimmering halo around the stereo apparition. I found these enhancements appealing and worth the extra cost.

A few years later, I switched to hair-thin, hand-drawn Italian silver wire from Audio Note Japan (now Kondo). Those wires, which were made entirely in-house, took data retrieval to an extreme level that forced me to coin a new descriptor—"LSD-spiderweb"—which referred to the surfeit of detail I experienced. Changing from almost-free copper to Kimber and Kondo silver was like switching from aspirin to windowpane acid provided by Owsley Stanley III. I tried those top-shelf silver cables with middle- and bottom-shelf components and discovered that their effect was pretty negligible with the bottom-row stuff but sometimes dramatically effective at upping the excitement factor of midlevel components. As a result, I have no qualms about using $4000 interconnects with a $2000 integrated amplifier."

 
FWIW I agree with him entirely, though from the polar opposite perspective. Silver cables, especially the thin ones (which they all are as the stuff is expensive!) sound terrible to my ears! That said they sound terrible in exactly the hyper-detailed over-analytical way SG describes, so we are hearing the same things, but with different brains.

It is an interesting one as silver has higher conductivity than copper (basic science; 100 vs 97), so SG should be right, but my ears file silver cables as something I don’t want.

FWIW I keep a pair of Kimber PBJ interconnects just in case anyone needs convincing audiophile cables sound different. They do. They sound rather odd. I’d keep a pair of Kimber KAG if I could justify the extra expense as they, being silver, sound even more odd!

PS Amazed to snag post #2 here. I usually only arrive at about page #35 in a cable thread when there’s blood all over the walls.
 
FWIW I agree with him entirely, though from the polar opposite perspective. Silver cables, especially the thin ones (which they all are as the stuff is expensive!) sound terrible to my ears! That said they sound terrible in exactly the hyper-detailed over-analytical way SG describes, so we are hearing the same things, but with different brains.

It is an interesting one as silver has higher conductivity than copper (basic science; 100 vs 97), so SG should be right, but my ears file silver cables as something I don’t want.

FWIW I keep a pair of Kimber PBJ interconnects just in case anyone needs convincing audiophile cables sound different. They do. They sound rather odd. I’d keep a pair of Kimber KAG if I could justify the extra expense as they, being silver, sound even more odd!

PS Amazed to snag post #2 here. I usually only arrive at about page #35 in a cable thread when there’s blood all over the walls.

I tend to agree - silver adds a "sheen" and excess focus on detail to the signal.

I suspect part of the reason it doesn't sound right (to my ears at least) is that studios mostly use copper cables and therefore music is mixed and EQ'd to sound "right" with copper cables.
 
Many many eons ago I was setting up an expensive room at a HiFi show. It all sounded a bit flat and warm, so i swapped in silver cables and it just woke up. Then someone told me i was an idiot and that pixies were not real.
?
Now i stick to the 'different but maybe not better' side of the discussion.
I never tried the expensive stuff, but some systems can change their sound with cable swaps.
Not a hobby for classroom teacher however.
 
I aint no genius but this is what I think when I hear people describing radical changes when using different cable topology (outside of the cable design being crap and thus detrimental)

Any cable we use (power, interconnect, speaker) is just a conduit into something else that also has lots of wiring:

- SS amps have big arsed transformers after the power cable that wont have the same metallurgy (i.e its rare to see these large transformers wound with say silver cable or Single-crystal OCC copper)

- Tube amps take this further (unless they are OTL) with big arsed output transformers..same difference in metallurgy as above

- Line level devices (pre-amps. DAC, disk players, phono amps) etc will have smaller transformers but will also have lots of board level traces that are copper that again wont be some fancy type.They might even use point to point wiring.

- Speakers have the signal go through the crossover and then the speaker coils


In all these example, the amount of wiring inside these components will be many many metres long ***... way longer than say an expensive 1m or 2m interconnect so my logic says that any "goodness" that may exist in an expensive cable will be undone by the "inferior" internal wiring of the component.


Peter

*** speaker coils for example might have on average 15m of wiring..and thats just one of the drivers in the cabinet
 
Most of my wires are VDH, not because of the metal used but because they all look so nice.
One in a lovely light custard colour, another grape green, one raspberry red and the best of all, blueberry.
A veritable fruit salad sprouting from the amp.

That genuinely does significantly influence my decision as I gave up being concerned with cable sound many years ago (except TT phono/arm cables), but I also take account of build quality and capacitance for interconnects, and VDH score gold there.

For speakers I stay with that spaced 12 guage stuff sold by Linn, Exposure and again VDH.
Low capacitance, low resistance, high-ish inductance proves to be extremely amp safe/agnostic.
For years now I've run Linn LK20 terminated in those soldered 'Z' 4mm thingies - it's cracking value.
 
FWIW I agree with him entirely, though from the polar opposite perspective. Silver cables, especially the thin ones (which they all are as the stuff is expensive!) sound terrible to my ears! That said they sound terrible in exactly the hyper-detailed over-analytical way SG describes, so we are hearing the same things, but with different brains.

It is an interesting one as silver has higher conductivity than copper (basic science; 100 vs 97), so SG should be right, but my ears file silver cables as something I don’t want.

FWIW I keep a pair of Kimber PBJ interconnects just in case anyone needs convincing audiophile cables sound different. They do. They sound rather odd. I’d keep a pair of Kimber KAG if I could justify the extra expense as they, being silver, sound even more odd!

PS Amazed to snag post #2 here. I usually only arrive at about page #35 in a cable thread when there’s blood all over the walls.
+1

Same experience, here.

Very happy with very thin, solid core, pure copper… DNM, everywhere!
 
I use loudspeaker cables with transparent envelope. I can delude myself into thinking I can watch the small electrons getting angry when the amp is loaded by a low impedance speaker. With expectation bias I really think I can.
 
Herb Reichert:

"I would never blame an audiophile for thinking that specialty audio cables sound mostly the same and that buying expensive wires would be foolish. That view is justifiable because it reflects most audiophiles' experience. I felt that way myself until one day in the 1980s I went off-piste and experienced my first silver-wire cables from Kimber Kable.

Ray Kimber, who I met somehow through the Audio Amateur magazine crowd, called to suggest I try a loom of his new braided silver wire. His cables turned my well-behaved, even-keeled system into a macrodynamic, microdetailed fantasia. No wolves or mammoths appeared, but the clouds vanished, and the sun came out.

Before that silver sun came out, my system was wired with various gauges of generic Mouser "hookup wire," which I had discovered by using it for point-to-point wiring in the amplifiers I was building. Mouser's stranded polyvinyl-coated copper did not appear to stifle or grossly pollute signal currents, so I began fashioning all my interconnects and speaker cables from it, in my preferred colors, with Switchcraft connectors.

Changing from Mouser copper to Kimber silver interconnects and speaker cables threw a brighter, purer light on every recording. Atmospherics and the specters of performers became a more prominent part of the listening experience. Equally noticeable was how silver added something akin to a shimmering halo around the stereo apparition. I found these enhancements appealing and worth the extra cost.

A few years later, I switched to hair-thin, hand-drawn Italian silver wire from Audio Note Japan (now Kondo). Those wires, which were made entirely in-house, took data retrieval to an extreme level that forced me to coin a new descriptor—"LSD-spiderweb"—which referred to the surfeit of detail I experienced. Changing from almost-free copper to Kimber and Kondo silver was like switching from aspirin to windowpane acid provided by Owsley Stanley III. I tried those top-shelf silver cables with middle- and bottom-shelf components and discovered that their effect was pretty negligible with the bottom-row stuff but sometimes dramatically effective at upping the excitement factor of midlevel components. As a result, I have no qualms about using $4000 interconnects with a $2000 integrated amplifier."


The Kondo stuff is undoubtedly made very well but I’m equally concerned by the shielding of such. No good splashing the cash on painstakingly made cables if they lack sufficient shielding as this affects the signal architecture between devices. Your mobile phone can affect a monitor if close enough so proximity by a few metres can affect the signal. Although cryogenic and annealing help mitigate this, proper shielding is critical. Firstly, use cable lifters made of ceramic (ones used in overhead power lines are best). A faraday cage around interconnects and speak cable is a must so shielding of this sort is advisable. You see this shielding internally in well made hifi boxes. This is a very minimum and then a person who purports to call himself a serious audiophile should be investing in tungsten carbide blocks around the cables fitted flush to the exit and entry points. Technique originally developed at Los Alamos to determine supercriticality with U-235). This deflects any higher energy neutron or alpha particle that might reach the listening room and failed to ionise in the atmosphere. Neutrino exclusion from the cabling is the bigger challenge. Though of different flavours like May-Tau neutrinos being massless chargelss particles they penetrate the earth with ease but they number about 410cm-3 so you can hear cable effects and the cabling then should lie in bath of water with cleaning solvent. Listening a lot night and you may detect a flash of the neutrino interacting around the cable if lucky. Although cryogenically treating helps the metal crystal as temperature rises, the resistance increases presenting a larger cross section as the metallic ions bathed in a sea of electrons oscillate at greater amplitude for which the only practicable solution is freezing your cables for several hours in the deep freezer prior to a listening session (unless you have access to liquid Nitrogen in the utility room but that’s a bit far fetched). Silver is more amenable and sonic effects last longer but as they come to ambient, the benefits reduce over time. I agree with all that has been said but would temper it by saying that a lot more attention is necessary to reap the full benefits.
 


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