The Far North
pfm Member
Did you pinch that idea straight from Trump, or did you actually suggest it to him?
Nicola Sturgeon beginning to grate on anyone?
- Thread starter richardg
- Start date
Did you pinch that idea straight from Trump, or did you actually suggest it to him?
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
The snag is that in the previous Scots Independence Ref. Vote the scots were told that a big benefit of staying with the UK was that it kept Scotland in the EU. And that if the Scots had voted for independence they wouldn't be able to stay - or get into - the EU.
For some of us, that was a key reason for not voting for independence. Hence we were told to make our decision on a basis that the rest of the UK has now whipped away.
That change now gives a legitimate basis for Scotland having another vote on Independence should the UK take Scotland into a changed situation wrt the EU.
Sturgeon and the SNP repeatedly pointed this out *before* the brexit vote. But I assume no-one down south was bothering to listen.
At present she is simply 'exploring all options'. But one of these is to have another idependence vote if the UK Government lets us down re what we told quite clearly at the time at the previous vote.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
BTW if you want to worry about 'walls' then take a look at the possible impact of this on NI... For them brexit looks like a serious bag of nails.
richardg
Admonishtrator
But you knew there was a UK referendum vote going to take place quite soon after. How could this justification to vote remain have had any weight to anybody?
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
It was during the "coalition government" period that Cameron promised his b'stards a vote on brexit. And being able to stay in the EU was widely used by the Tories/Labour/Libs as an argument to deter a vote in favour of Scots independence.
This was all pointed out repeatedly at the time, and after the independence vote. Just that people down south may have not noticed.
audeo
Member
Apologies in advance for any crimes I'm about to commit against arithmetic, logic or statistics.
Just prior to the EU referendum vote, I believe Westminster MP's had come out as:
479 for Remain, 158 for Leave and 13 undeclared. So if we say 158 of 637, we get 24.8% of MP's at Westminster intended to vote to leave the EU.
During the Scottish Parliament EU Referendum debate at Hollyrood prior to the big day, I understand 8 of 129 (or 6.2%) of MSP's were in favour of leaving the EU.
Now if Westminster represents the UK as a whole, and the UK as a whole voted at 51.9% to leave the EU against 25% of Westminster MP's who voted the same way, you
could say the UK Parliament was out of step with it's electorate by a ratio of roughly 2:1 (51.9% vs 24.8% for leave)
In Scotland, 38% of the population voted to leave against just 6.2% of the MSP's who were elected to represent them, so it appears Hollyrood was out of step with it's
electorate by a ratio of 6:1 (38% vs 6.2% for leave).
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it would seem then that Westminster is 3 times more in tune (2:1 vs 6:1) with the UK, than the Hollyrood Parliament is with Scotland.
Much of the chatter coming from Edinburgh seems to suggest otherwise.
Just prior to the EU referendum vote, I believe Westminster MP's had come out as:
479 for Remain, 158 for Leave and 13 undeclared. So if we say 158 of 637, we get 24.8% of MP's at Westminster intended to vote to leave the EU.
During the Scottish Parliament EU Referendum debate at Hollyrood prior to the big day, I understand 8 of 129 (or 6.2%) of MSP's were in favour of leaving the EU.
Now if Westminster represents the UK as a whole, and the UK as a whole voted at 51.9% to leave the EU against 25% of Westminster MP's who voted the same way, you
could say the UK Parliament was out of step with it's electorate by a ratio of roughly 2:1 (51.9% vs 24.8% for leave)
In Scotland, 38% of the population voted to leave against just 6.2% of the MSP's who were elected to represent them, so it appears Hollyrood was out of step with it's
electorate by a ratio of 6:1 (38% vs 6.2% for leave).
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it would seem then that Westminster is 3 times more in tune (2:1 vs 6:1) with the UK, than the Hollyrood Parliament is with Scotland.
Much of the chatter coming from Edinburgh seems to suggest otherwise.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Interesting use of figures. But it glosses over the fact that the Scots voted to remain. Since it was a 'referendum', how the MPs or MSPs voted individually just meant they got one vote like any other elector.
richardg
Admonishtrator
Yes and this is one reason why she is annoying, waiting until she gets what she wants is not serving the public. That is manipulation and abuse of power.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
I think her public are the ones north of the border and she is serving them well. May is not rushing into anything and neither is Sturgeon. Your last sentence is misguided.
Lee T
pfm Member
Begging the EU for mercy is a show of weakness by Sturgeon, she needs to show strength, she is not helping her cause or her people.
She should take a leaf out of May's book on how to aproach the EU.
I still have visions of the scottish minister in the European union, begging & pleading a day after the vote, it was nauseating.
William Wallace would be turning in his grave.
She should take a leaf out of May's book on how to aproach the EU.
I still have visions of the scottish minister in the European union, begging & pleading a day after the vote, it was nauseating.
William Wallace would be turning in his grave.
The Far North
pfm Member
What a fascinating amount of spite about a politician who apparently is irrelevant to you.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
What a fascinating amount of spite about a politician who apparently is irrelevant to you.
That'll be the Brexit effect.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Scotland does actually control huge areas of the continental shelf, which makes it important to fishing countries. A small population is a bonus as it makes Scotland cheaper to run. Scotland could easily end up being cost neutral to the EU
Lee T
pfm Member
Not spite on my behalf, her party has not conducted itself well since the referendum, i don't see how anyone can say they have, you have to admit that performance at the European union, the day after, was pitiful in the extreme, i lost respect from this point onwards for Sturgeon, i was a supporter prior to this referendum, she needs to get her act together if she wants to act accordingly for Scotland as a whole.What a fascinating amount of spite about a politician who apparently is irrelevant to you.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
We've got one in Germany, now we've got one up north.
Brexit means Brexit!!!
Brexit means Brexit!!!