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New house, new speakers

Telstar

Telstar

pfm Member
In the next few months I'm gonna change home and I'm thinking about new speakers :)

Room size is 5,5 x 3,6 mt, positioning will be on one of the longer walls. No niches are nearby (thanks god, I hate the resonances that they bring in my current flat). As close to the back wall as they can be the better. Moderate room treatments are possible but I cannot count on that.

I would prefer a 3-way, but I'm considering good 2-way designs like some in the list below. My preferences about sound are for extended but tight bass, smooth HF, lively character with excellent voice reproduction, and a tone not too bright/light (such as too many modern speakers which have a fake "hifi" sound.).
I prefer floorstanders to bookshelves + subs. The first speakers that I really liked were a pair of Kan, which didn't excite the disastrous room modes of my old apartment. I think this is the right forum to ask because I generally like old school british sound, very musical, with a rather dark tone, but also a few Italian (Opera), German (Tidal) and French (Focal) makers.
On principle, I'm not against any design, it's the whole that matters, except backfiring bass reflex that wouldn't allow rather close positioning - if it's ported, it should be overdamped (like Avalon and Tidal) and with side or front vents.
Aesthetics and easiness to drive matters a little (i like to play with different amps, and WAF factor is to be accounted for). Color must be walnut, rosewood, or piano lacquer white (eventually all black).

Budget is not set in stone, I'm considering 5k€ as the very top, but I would look into used market first, to be able to resell without much loss something that is hard/impossible to listen first.

In the next weeks I'll do several auditions. NB: I'm located in Italy.

Revel F208, F206
Pros: aesthetics, linear response, Cons: metal tweeter and midrange (but the crossover seems to be engineered really well).

Focal Aria 948, 936
Pros: natural-sounding, Cons: midbass bump that could be problematic in room (936 and I doubt the bigger one will be much better, while the 926 has no bass extension at all).

Triangle Signature Delta
Pros/cons: not sure, seems an overall great performer, that i'll try to audition for sure.

PMC OB1, Twenty.23
Pros: lovely midrange dome drivers, transmission-line bass should offer what I need (extension and tightness), Cons: will be tempted to upgrade the tweeter, hard to audition here (even new models).

Naim IBL, SBL, Allae, SL2
Pros: close-wall positioning, tight bass (in most cases), I definitely want to try them. Cons: IBL and especially SBL have low WAF, but are easy to resell, almost impossible to audition.

I'm open to other suggestions, especially of pneumatic suspension models.
 
Rest of system?

I would also look at Dynaudio - I have Contour 1.8/2 in a similar room, and Proac 2.8 or equivalent.
 
Hmm, not easy. Total guesswork in fact. Trying to guess which speaker will work purely based on room size. I wouldn't bother until you're in your new home & set up your existing stuff & have a listen. Especially if you are thinking of spending up to €5k. That's way too much to gamble.
Very few speakers work well really tight to a rear wall. Naim stuff is usually placed tight to the rear wall, but very few people use Naim speakers if they don't have Naim gear. What electronics are you using btw?
Floor/wall construction, decor, seating arrangements, just too many variables to guess a big budget on prior to moving in.
Don't rush it.
Maybe you don't want to hear that opinion, but really spending 5k blind is very close to madness.
Matt.
 
You can make almost any loudspeaker work, if you are willing to either passively or electronically (or both ) treat the room,I would choose the one you like the sound of.
Keith.
 
manicatel said:
Hmm, not easy. Total guesswork in fact. Trying to guess which speaker will work purely based on room size. I wouldn't bother until you're in your new home & set up your existing stuff & have a listen. Especially if you are thinking of spending up to €5k. That's way too much to gamble.
Click to expand...

Hi to both,

Floor is marble and walls are standard bricks such as these:
http://www.sardalaterizi.it/public/UPLOAD_PRODOTTI/FILES/forato1_1.jpg

I'm not going to spend 5k Blind - I may gamble only on much cheaper speakers of easy re-sell value (such as a pair of Allae). I just want to add more options to my list, to look for auditions. I won't be able to do a HOME listening, unless it's new speakers or something from a hi-fi shop in my area.

I forgot to specify the rest of the chain:
Sources: Naim CDS3 / dedicated PC with Audio-gd DAC with pcm1704.
Amplification: Classé CAP100. As I said, I plan to do some rotation, for fun mostly. This amp is an excellent all-rounder. I want to get an Ayre AX7e once I find a good deal (not in a hurry, probably next year).
Cables: Siltech G80 (signal), Kubala-sosna (power), various (AC)
Rack: to be bought in new house, probably from Bassocontinuo brand (using some Ikea crap ATM)
 
Ptah said:
Rest of system?

I would also look at Dynaudio - I have Contour 1.8/2 in a similar room, and Proac 2.8 or equivalent.
Click to expand...

Aren't they both with back-firing vents?
I do like ProAC Response sound, the old models rather than newer ones with carbon / ribbon drivers, but they need a lot of air around (which crushes with WAF).
Dynaudios, I have to look better in their catalog, and find a shop that carries some, which isn't super easy since our local distributor caters more to the pro audio market.
 
I would add Proac floor standers to your list - the ones with the downward firing ports - D18/D20/D28..etc..
Superb all rounders and relatively easy to place
 
Spendor d7 are v good. Backfiring but seem happy closish to wall. Not quite as bright as proac from my limited experience.
 
manicatel said:
Hmm, not easy. Total guesswork in fact. Trying to guess which speaker will work purely based on room size. I wouldn't bother until you're in your new home & set up your existing stuff & have a listen. ...
Don't rush it.

Matt.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% - set up your old system for a few weeks and get the 'feel' of the room acoustics etc before you go buying things.
 
banjoman said:
I would add Proac floor standers to your list - the ones with the downward firing ports - D18/D20/D28..etc..
Superb all rounders and relatively easy to place
Click to expand...

I checked the site and they have downfiring side vents - I remembered wrong. Pity they are 2-way. But it's a brand very easy to find here both new, demo or used. Their bass is full and a bit loose from my memory, so they sound better in shows and typical absorbent demo rooms than in real apartments, but I'll make sure to re-audion D18, D28 and maybe some discontinued model too such as the D3.5 if I can find one (those with silk tweeter, which weren't bright at all).

To answer to Purite, no, I'm not willing to do digital correction nor heavy room treatment, I want something that sounds good by itself, with just minor adjustments.
 
Telstar said:
To answer to Purite, no, I'm not willing to do digital correction nor heavy room treatment, I want something that sounds good by itself, with just minor adjustments.
Click to expand...
I'm with you to a degree. I'd rather get something that is very close to what I want & use correction techniques to fine tune, rather than rely wholly on them to correct something that's way out.
But....................................
Having acoustic treatment in my room has made a fantastic difference to the sound, without turning into looking like, or sounding like a recording studio.
I've also heard DRC room correction within the Amarra program doing great things, so I wouldn't dismiss either room treatment or digital correction totally. It can make more difference than spending several times more on better amps/cdp's etc. In fact for me, acoustic treatment is probably the most cost effective upgrade going. And it really doesn't have to look utilitarian any more.
Marble floors & sparse furnishings will make hard work, especially if you end up with Naim speakers such as Allaes or SL2's, which are contenders for your " speakers very close to the rear wall" wish.
Enjoy the hunt!
Matt.
 
I'm going to add to my list the Infinity prelude 40, which I liked at Milan top audio show of a few years ago. They dont go much low but I remember that sounded as good as they were overpriced. WAF is also very good :)
 
Blzebub said:
Quad electrostatics. They work very well in small rooms.
Click to expand...
Was going to suggest them, but they must have at least 24" of space behind.

Re the OP: The larger Harbeth standmounts might be worth hearing - they are supremely accurate within spec and fit your requirements pretty much spot on.
 
foxwelljsly said:
Was going to suggest them, but they must have at least 24" of space behind.
Click to expand...

You can get away with ESLs in the room the OP is talking about. I know because I have a room that is 4.5 x 3.6. I've really struggled with this room over the last year, but recently had a revelation that I could try firing across rather than down the room. (There were various reasons I didn't try this properly before, to do with door and window placement etc).

ESLs in that situation will not need to be much further into the room than most conventional speakers, since even moderate box speakers tend to be close to 12 inches deep and usually need 12 inches behind them. The Quads have the advantage of having virtually no depth.

What you are going to get in that room is a nice equilateral triangle of about 9 feet to the listening position and the same between the speakers. You get really good width and involvement in this formation. You have the advantage over my room of an extra metre of width, which means you can maintain that wide triangle without the speakers being too near the corners, and that should save you sweating over bass problems.

The difficulty is that in that kind of near field triangle with the speakers firing across you are pretty much stuck with a narrow sweet spot. You could say that ESLs make this worse, or you could take the view that you are going to get it with virtually any kind of speaker (other than omnis) in that room so you might as well get stats! Having just moved to this formation myself I haven't quite decided, but my 63s have wonderful width and clarity when used like this.

I've also tried various Harbeths in this set up and found that my old pair of HL5s are really good. The large box really breathes and does work near field without any boom or blurring. My only caveat would be that sometimes with a large box in an intimate setting like that I find I am switching the volume up and down too much.

I've also tried my little KEF LS50. These are at a much lower budget level of course, but they work very well indeed and do put up a good argument for accepting a small speaker in a near-field situation.

If the preference is for modern floor standing WAF boxes, I think anything not much deeper than a foot with front or downward port should work fine.
 
Elephantears said:
If the preference is for modern floor standing WAF boxes, I think anything not much deeper than a foot with front or downward port should work fine.
Click to expand...

I agree with this opinion, although I can win some width (up to 35-40cm I think, but then baffle step needs good compensation in the XO), depth is an issue with backfiring ports of many modern designs (sigh), such as the WB I just added to the list. I have their distributor in my town so I can listen to several models, which on paper look great except for the ports.
 
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