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Naim house sound

Arkless Repairs said:
Indeed. All the Vereker "designed" power amps that sound thin grey and grainy.
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which are those? Is there a list of which ones are good and which to avoid. I'm not a fan of thin, grey or grainy.

I'd still like to audition the Supernait 2, while on my hunt for a new amp, just in case I discover a Naim amp better than highly average, which is sort of how I categorise any I've heard to date!
 
LouisB said:
which are those? Is there a list of which ones are good and which to avoid. I'm not a fan of thin, grey or grainy.

I'd still like to audition the Supernait 2, while on my hunt for a new amp, just in case I discover a Naim amp better than highly average, which is sort of how I categorise any I've heard to date!
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All the older "classic" Naim power amps.
 
clownfish said:
The often quoted mid/bass hump with Naim equipment seems a strange viewpoint to me. Thats not to say I don't understand the phenomenon being described but it's the way it is attributed that bothers me.

If the amp has a flat frequency response then how can it have a designed in lift in the mid, bass or anywhere else?

Is it not just the case that Naim amps (typically) are designed to dump current as required, giving them a fast slew rate which means leading edges of signal can be reproduced faithful giving the music lots of attack - compared to some other amps?

Surely any self respecting amp can't be putting in stuff that's not there in the source?

O.k. I may just have revealed a lot of ignorance here but am genuinely interested to understand the above stated perception of Naim amplification..

Hard hat on, ready for what's coming my way 😎
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Having owned a Naim nait 5i & currently a naim nait 3, I find the 3 to be much purer in sound with a faster more detailed sound, the 5i, put together by a completely different design team, sounded much smoother to the point of thickness to my ears, it sounded a little restrained & dull in comparison. The 3 sounds completely grain free as does the matching cd3.5 I owned recently for a brief period compared to more modern players that seem to sound more sterile in comparison. Together they sounded like live music to my ears, all the energy in tact along with super clean detail & attack, the more recent naim stuff sounds very different.

They are completely different sounding amps so I can't see how there can be a naim house sound.
 
Yank said:
Any signal run through bead tantalum caps is going to have some grain added to its texture.
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does the signal go through the capacitors? Thought they were used to block DC and to provide short term current to the transistors.
 
Arkless Repairs said:
Indeed. All the Vereker "designed" power amps that sound thin grey and grainy.
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The complete opposite to my experience with them, the older amps sound much purer, no grain heard through my system, very clear & clean.

My Nait 3 sounds beefy & solid compared to a recent Rega amp I owned. Owned a nait 2 also & a couple of pre/power amps with similar results, definitely not lean, thin or grey, if they sounded the way you describe who would buy them, they still sell very well on the second hand market, can't imagine anyone hankering after a thin, grey, grainy sound.

What models are you referring to in particular.
 
One man's beefy is another thin and grainy :D

It's all relative and will depend on the rest of the system, the speakers being a vitally important part. I bet the lean-ness of Naim really suits some less than forthcoming speakers, yet could be too much on others that are very revealing.

I don't think Naim and Beefy really go together in the same sentence though, Naim are up the other end of the spectrum perhaps like Rega and Cyrus.
 
cliffpatte said:
I'm guessing your naim amps need a service, and you might want to swap out the 32.5 filter boards for the 72 ones.
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Hi Cliffs, I am using 821a boards with the filter boards linked out, I think this is how they are meant to be? I will try them with the original filter boards back in, thanks.

Apologies to the op for going off topic.
 
LouisB said:
One man's beefy is another thin and grainy :D

It's all relative and will depend on the rest of the system, the speakers being a vitally important part. I bet the lean-ness of Naim really suits some less than forthcoming speakers, yet could be too much on others that are very revealing.

I don't think Naim and Beefy really go together in the same sentence though, Naim are up the other end of the spectrum perhaps like Rega and Cyrus.
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Cyrus & Naim are complete opposites where sound balance is concerned in my experience, I found Cyrus to be very lean & bright, more in line with the grey & thin sound mentioned.

Naim & beefy certainly go together with the Naim gear I have used, bass being quite full & solid with good propulsion & drive, can't imagine where the grainy thin sound comes from but I have heard the newer gear & thought this sounded more along these lines to my ears. Saying that, I have replaced all the power cables with my own hand made types & replaced the old grey interconnect with Chord cabling, maybe this has something to do with it, I was using this cabling when I had my rega amp mind & the sound was night & day with the Naim, the rega sounding leaner, grainier & much more laid back, a little tame for my music preference.

The Naim amp seems to have fleshed out the sound on some of my older 80's & 90's cd's which can sound a little thin & flat compared to later offerings which now sound full of life & expression.

I do have a way of refurbishing any older gear I get hold of though, it's a simple process but does clean out any of the cobwebs of being used over the years, it does seem to lift the performance to a higher level. It's something I have carried out with any older hifi equipment I purchase & has served me well over the years, yet to have any second hand gear break down on me after carrying out this simple yet effective refurbish. I'm certainly no electronics engineer but know enough to carry this off.
 
nirvanah said:
Hi Cliffs, I am using 821a boards with the filter boards linked out, I think this is how they are meant to be? I will try them with the original filter boards back in, thanks.

Apologies to the op for going off topic.
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what is an 821a board? I think the relevant 72 board is a 328/1

on my 32.5 I used to use the tuner board for CD replay I think it was an NA328 without the "/1"

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/naim/preamps.html
 
Ragaman said:
Cyrus & Naim are complete opposites where sound balance is concerned in my experience, I found Cyrus to be very lean & bright, more in line with the grey & thin sound mentioned.

Naim & beefy certainly go together with the Naim gear I have used, bass being quite full & solid with good propulsion & drive, can't imagine where the grainy thin sound comes from but I have heard the newer gear & thought this sounded more along these lines to my ears. Saying that, I have replaced all the power cables with my own hand made types & replaced the old grey interconnect with Chord cabling, maybe this has something to do with it, I was using this cabling when I had my rega amp mind & the sound was night & day with the Naim, the rega sounding leaner, grainier & much more laid back, a little tame for my music preference.

The Naim amp seems to have fleshed out the sound on some of my older 80's & 90's cd's which can sound a little thin & flat compared to later offerings which now sound full of life & expression.

I do have a way of refurbishing any older gear I get hold of though, it's a simple process but does clean out any of the cobwebs of being used over the years, it does seem to lift the performance to a higher level. It's something I have carried out with any older hifi equipment I purchase & has served me well over the years, yet to have any second hand gear break down on me after carrying out this simple yet effective refurbish. I'm certainly no electronics engineer but know enough to carry this off.
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Ok well as I say, it's all relative and one man's ...

BTW power cables have nothing to do with sound quality. There was another thread on this.
Unless you're replacing components with new/better then typically I think you hear what you want to hear. Just as when replacing mains leads with expensive 'upgrades'.
As long as you're happy and it's 'beefy' enough for you, it doesn't really matter. We all have different ears and perspectives.
 
LouisB said:
Ok well as I say, it's all relative and one man's ...

BTW power cables have nothing to do with sound quality. There was another thread on this.
Unless you're replacing components with new/better then typically I think you hear what you want to hear. Just as when replacing mains leads with expensive 'upgrades'.
As long as you're happy and it's 'beefy' enough for you, it doesn't really matter. We all have different ears and perspectives.
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That's sort of what my message was intending , for someone to state all older Naim amps sound thin & grainy seems a little silly as it will depend on your circumstances, I imagine they were purchased & used as they were without any refurbishment involved to bring them back to life.

PS/ the refurbishment technique I use has nothing to do with mains cables or any other cable, it's something carried out internally & certainly refreshes the sound, maybe I should start charging as it makes a significant improvement :)

Only do this for myself & close friends who are all quite happy with the result.
 
Ragaman said:
That's sort of what my message was intending , for someone to state all older Naim amps sound thin & grainy seems a little silly as it will depend on your circumstances, I imagine they were purchased & used as they were without any refurbishment involved to bring them back to life.

PS/ the refurbishment technique I use has nothing to do with mains cables or any other cable, it's something carried out internally & certainly refreshes the sound, maybe I should start charging as it makes a significant improvement :)

Only do this for myself & close friends who are all quite happy with the result.
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so we're saying only older Naim amps are bad, grainy or whatever due to them ageing?

I guess I'm no Naim expert or fan so much so I'm not really adding much here in that respect.

I'd like to heard a good Naim system sometime.

As the new systems I heard never struck a complete chord with me. Beefy compared to Cyrus is like saying muscly next to say Nicole Kidman, or something similar :D

Hoping to audition some amps in systems soon, perhaps my viewpoint will be refreshed :)
 
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