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Naim equipment with non-Naim power supplies

A power supply has a huge impact on sound quality and character, ostensibly you are picking the Naim sound versus the Teddy or Avondale etc sound which is fine and after twenty years reading on Naim, I've yet to hear anything negative about these power supplies other than isolated incidents. I want the "Naim" sound, so much so, that I would rather have a 52/Olive SC over a 252 with an alternate power supply. Given that these are infinitely repairable, seems a safe investment. Choose your sound, while one can be objectively better in measurement, the one that keeps you listening is the right one Teddy etc or Naim.Again it's not better or worse, its different, it's just not the Naim sound.
 
I have a Dual Teddy Cap with my 82 simply because it was offered as part of the deal for the 82. It cost me just €400 extra, which is about the price of a used standard olive Hicap. Considering that it replaces 2xHiCap + NAPSC, the saving is substantial. I haven't compared it to the Naim equivalent but it sounds marvellous. I do like visually matching kit though, so I keep it tucked away out of sight behind and below the system!
 
Got a teddy powering the 252 preamp.
Sounds good to me.

Can’t bring myself to spend £5k on a naim supercap in case I can’t tell a difference in sound.

Also worried if I do spend £5k I might get the dreaded naim transformer hum

Save me £2.5k on a service aswell when it’s due.

anyone done a comparison?
 
Mickdale said:
Got a teddy powering the 252 preamp.
Sounds good to me.

Can’t bring myself to spend £5k on a naim supercap in case I can’t tell a difference in sound.

Also worried if I do spend £5k I might get the dreaded naim transformer hum

Save me £2.5k on a service aswell when it’s due.

anyone done a comparison?
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The 5k supercap, transformer humming and the 2.5k service just stopped me wanting to do any comparison !!! :eek:
 
I'm using Witch Hat Dragon NEWTs which are their DR implementation. In the words of their designer they don't add anything to the sound like other supplies do, but rather don't get in the way. They're very quiet.
 
MJS said:
I'm using Witch Hat Dragon NEWTs which are their DR implementation. In the words of their designer they don't add anything to the sound like other supplies do, but rather don't get in the way. They're very quiet.
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Me too, I have them in a pair of vintage bolt down SNAPS, one feeding split-rail bolt down 32 and the other a split-rail NAXO to 3 bolt down 250s driving Isobariks.

Too many changes all done at the same time, (all components serviced and new Morgana interconnects) to offer a proper comparison with the original regulators. I think my setup sounds remarkable for a system my father bought in 1977.

Definitely worth considering as an upgrade if it is appropriate, the original regulating circuit is pretty basic and wouldn't be difficult to improve on.
 
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david ellwood said:
If you try one and like it then obviously I’m not telling anyone their personal experience is invalid.

IME other manufacturers power supplies often have a different modus operandi and whilst they might be cleaner or quieter they are also less boogie.

Im sure others will disagree , this is a forum after all.
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while in my ex-Naim system (NAC72/HiCap/NAP160.2) using the TP PSU resulted in a smother, more refined sound I finally returned to the HiCap as a noticeable part of the PRaT had gone awol, which for me should've been more of a compromise than what I could happily live with...
 
coltrane said:
while in my ex-Naim system (NAC72/HiCap/NAP160.2) using the TP PSU resulted in a smother, more refined sound I finally returned to the HiCap as a noticeable part of the PRaT had gone awol, which for me should've been more of a compromise than what I could happily live with...
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I came to the same conclusion after a few tests with the guy I bought a NAP 250.2 from and is now running Teddy Pardo pre, amp and and power supply. Personally, I prefer the Naim sound with its pros and cons and so far, only the Avondale stuff doesn’t change that sound signature IME.
When I want a non Naim sound, my Classe Audio CP 35 pre and Musical Fidelity P170 power amp is my go to second system..........and I don’t really lose any PRaT on top of that !
 
willmac said:
I confess I like Naim and the sound - but when it comes to the PSU - its very expensive.
No doubt my XPS-DR on my NAC 272 made a huge difference.

On the market I see Teddy pardo and CHC.

Does anyone have any experience comparisons?

Will a CHC 555psu compare with the Naim one at half the price?

I am really keen on the nac 252 - but it becomes prohibitive as you have to get the supercap.

These other vendors offer alternatives at much less.

Also what is the resale market like?
If i got a supercap equivalent just to get a 252 up an running - could i easily sell it late if i decided the Naim supercap was better?
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Opinions are obviously split between the 2 camps which are perfectly valid, and I'll add mine to the mix.

Personally, if you like the Naim sound I would suggest that you stick with a Naim PSU although it may be costlier. If you can't afford a Naim PSU, it may be more worthwhile to drop the Naim and go for something else altogether. For similar (or lower) prices, these alternatives will offer a different or better sound quality than the Naim, and it's up to you to decide whether it's a sound you would like.

I see you own the XPS-DR and NAC 272 which to me is a perfectly balanced combination. I guess you may have been tempted by talks of the Naim 555 PSU blowing the XPS-DR out of the water and are now considering the cheaper alternatives since the 555 PSU is too costly to you. Also, from your post it appears that you have a plan of upgrading from the 272/XPS DR to 252/Supercap instead of exploring the 555 PSU with the 272. Few options there.

I suppose you need to make up your mind on your "end-game" set up, in other words your final destination with regard to settling with the 272 or 252, or something else for good. Or perhaps you enjoy being on the upgrade ladder and wish to experience new things from time to time. It will be a lot easier to decide if you have a clear plan ahead.

In the end, it's up to you to decide although you can get all sorts of advice and suggestions. It's fine if you end up with a 3rd party PSU from the likes of Teddy, Avondale or CHC etc. Only you can decide if the sound is an upgrade to the current PSU that you own.

A final word - you will only know which PSU will sound better once you compare both in your own system, no other way. For example, you purchase the CHC 555 PSU for your 272 and compare the CHC with the Naim XPS-DR that you currently own. Say the CHC sounds better than the XPS-DR with the 272. Nevertheless, you won't know if the CHC 555 PSU will sound better than the Naim 555 PSU until you compare both. You may choose to stay content with the CHC and forget about the Naim 555 PSU (since it's too costly anyway), or by some chance you try the Naim 555 PSU and realise you like it better than the CHC. Ditto the Naim vs Teddycap vs Avondale vs CHC in all variants Hicap, Supercap on 282, 252 etc.

Pardon the long post. There's really no consensus in this one so best of luck to you. FWIW I initially used a Dual Teddycap on the 202 for about 6 years, then moved up to 282 with the same Dual Teddycap. The 282/Teddycap sounds good but once the Hicap DR was in, the Teddycap was on the way out. There isn't any doubt both PSU sounded different and I preferred the Hicap DR with the 282 as it preserves the exuberance and liveliness of the 282. The Teddycap brought a bit of refinement and cleaner bass but the sound was slightly dull with my Harbeth speakers. A bit too polite and bland. If I hadn't made the comparison I could still live with the 282/Teddycap. Once you make the comparison, one will inevitably sound better than the other one, depending on your preferences, room, loudspeakers etc.
 
ryder said:
Opinions are obviously split between the 2 camps which are perfectly valid, and I'll add mine to the mix.

Personally, if you like the Naim sound I would suggest that you stick with a Naim PSU although it may be costlier. If you can't afford a Naim PSU, it may be more worthwhile to drop the Naim and go for something else altogether. For similar (or lower) prices, these alternatives will offer a different or better sound quality than the Naim, and it's up to you to decide whether it's a sound you would like.

I see you own the XPS-DR and NAC 272 which to me is a perfectly balanced combination. I guess you may have been tempted by talks of the Naim 555 PSU blowing the XPS-DR out of the water and are now considering the cheaper alternatives since the 555 PSU is too costly to you. Also, from your post it appears that you have a plan of upgrading from the 272/XPS DR to 252/Supercap instead of exploring the 555 PSU with the 272. Few options there.

I suppose you need to make up your mind on your "end-game" set up, in other words your final destination with regard to settling with the 272 or 252, or something else for good. Or perhaps you enjoy being on the upgrade ladder and wish to experience new things from time to time. It will be a lot easier to decide if you have a clear plan ahead.

In the end, it's up to you to decide although you can get all sorts of advice and suggestions. It's fine if you end up with a 3rd party PSU from the likes of Teddy, Avondale or CHC etc. Only you can decide if the sound is an upgrade to the current PSU that you own.

A final word - you will only know which PSU will sound better once you compare both in your own system, no other way. For example, you purchase the CHC 555 PSU for your 272 and compare the CHC with the Naim XPS-DR that you currently own. Say the CHC sounds better than the XPS-DR with the 272. Nevertheless, you won't know if the CHC 555 PSU will sound better than the Naim 555 PSU until you compare both. You may choose to stay content with the CHC and forget about the Naim 555 PSU (since it's too costly anyway), or by some chance you try the Naim 555 PSU and realise you like it better than the CHC. Ditto the Naim vs Teddycap vs Avondale vs CHC in all variants Hicap, Supercap on 282, 252 etc.

Pardon the long post. There's really no consensus in this one so best of luck to you. FWIW I initially used a Dual Teddycap on the 202 for about 6 years, then moved up to 282 with the same Dual Teddycap. The 282/Teddycap sounds good but once the Hicap DR was in, the Teddycap was on the way out. There isn't any doubt both PSU sounded different and I preferred the Hicap DR with the 282 as it preserves the exuberance and liveliness of the 282. The Teddycap brought a bit of refinement and cleaner bass but the sound was slightly dull with my Harbeth speakers. A bit too polite and bland. If I hadn't made the comparison I could still live with the 282/Teddycap. Once you make the comparison, one will inevitably sound better than the other one, depending on your preferences, room, loudspeakers etc.
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Well said, and great advice.
 
Thanks everyone for your kind comments!
Just a quick word if I may: we have done a great deal of work in the past year, to improve the products' performance.
This includes: better component selection across all products (the T-XPS received the biggest improvements), a new product: TeddyCAP SE, which was specifically made and tested with the SuperNait and NaitXS amplifiers, a new set of cables (Koltura cables, made of multistrand pure copper wires) and a new speaker cable made specifically per Naim power amp requirements (low capacitance and medium inductance).
Owners of older TP products are welcome to upgrade by way of part-exchange.
Thank you and Merry XMAS!
Yair
 
We've played around quite a bit swapping between SuperCaps, HiCaps and the TP equivelents, eventually we found a balance we liked. Ultimately for us and I know this is all personal taste but we found the Teddy Supercap dissapointing on the 52, it just lost the drive we liked but yes there were many gains with the TSC and it was certainly easier on the ears over extended listening. However using the TSC to power a CD5XS and a Prefix brought big improvements all round, with the Supercap on the 52 still.

Earlier this year we bought some SL2s and went active, we tried both a Supercap and a TSC to power the SNAXO and without a doubt the TSC was the clear favourite for us and remains along with a Dual TC and a Headline PS (which I bought prior to the DTC). Basically what we have tried to do is to keep that classic Naim sound but to just make it more open and detailed but less tiring but the key for us was keeping the Naim Supercap on the 52 even though you could argue that the overall sound was better with Teddy's offering.
 
I've been using Avondale TPX's with Naim pre-amps and crossovers for many years and to me, they sound great. I also have an Avondale modified TPR4 Hi-Cap in the system upstairs and that sounds great too.
 
wylton said:
I've been using Avondale TPX's with Naim pre-amps and crossovers for many years and to me, they sound great. I also have an Avondale modified TPR4 Hi-Cap in the system upstairs and that sounds great too.
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I tested a few bits from RSL, Teddy Pardo and Avondale myself and always preferred Avondale. Maybe not as analytical as the other two but retain the Naim sound and a real pleasure to listen to for long periods of time.
 
yairf said:
Thanks everyone for your kind comments!
Just a quick word if I may: we have done a great deal of work in the past year, to improve the products' performance.
This includes: better component selection across all products (the T-XPS received the biggest improvements), a new product: TeddyCAP SE, which was specifically made and tested with the SuperNait and NaitXS amplifiers, a new set of cables (Koltura cables, made of multistrand pure copper wires) and a new speaker cable made specifically per Naim power amp requirements (low capacitance and medium inductance).
Owners of older TP products are welcome to upgrade by way of part-exchange.
Thank you and Merry XMAS!
Yair
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I was intrigued when I read the comment by Yair regarding a new Teddy XPS.

I have been lucky enough to obtain a new version of the teddy XPS last week and it will be staying with me.

Firstly the ‘new’ Teddy XPS seems of even higher quality than the ‘old’ version. It looks absolutely beautiful and there’s a change in the LED size. The unit is heavier suggesting that there may have been a fair degree of change inside the box, as Yair mentions.

When I first listened to the ‘new’ Teddy XPS compared to the ‘old’ there was an immediate difference (improvement) in the sound. One week later I feel fairly confident that I can now begin to describe the improvements which are marked.

In essence the music is much more natural. I think one of the major factors is that digital harshness (which I thought I had got rid of in my system) has been banished. Music sounds much smoother and flows better making it more focused, thus enhancing speed. Tiny nuances are easily discerned, aiding the musical experience. Solo singers are just so much more real and the illusion of reality is enhanced (most notably when streaming radio 4 voice or radio 3). There’s a more three-dimensional sound and the sound stage is a little wider and certainly taller, with a more forward presentation. The upper frequencies are much improved. I feel that the lower notes are similar – perhaps thee is a tad more around 30/40Hz as but my 804d2 speakers have a slight dip in the midbass so my suspicion is that there would be improvement with a speaker that excels in those frequencies.

I replace the stock a Teddy XPS fuse with an SR orange fuse. There was a further improvement immediately on insertion although so perhaps not as dramatic as when I used these fuses into other units. As you know the SR orange fuses are said to take some while to burn in so I’m expecting further improvements over the forthcoming week.

I would heartily recommend those with aTeddy XPS consider the new upgraded unit
 
Hi
I loved the Naim sound but the number of boxes required got to me after a while.
I had an Avondale twin hicap and NAPSC and added detail to the 282. It had warmth and musicality and I loved it. It did hum slightly. I seem to remember it needed special cables to connect it to the back of the 282 because of the earthing
I also had a Teddy XPS. It added a high amount of detail and separation to in instruments of the bare CDX2 I had. It was quiet in operation. I loved the detail but the low mids were slightly thinner sounding.
I replaced my 250 with a chord amp and loved the extra detail. It didn’t have the 250 slamming base but suited the B&W speakers beautifully
It is all about system synergy
I hope my little journey and perspective helps
Keep enjoying the music
M
 
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