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Naim CD3

S

say it as it is

pfm Member
Hi looking for advice on a CD3.
Been offered a non working cd3 it powers up but doesn't play properly.
Safe to assume transport I'd say?

Been told almost impossible to get bits now.

I like the olive look tho.

This may be scorned but if not able to get OEM spec parts what can you do with this model?

Could the case be used to house other components and upgrade it for example?

Or is this best left alone as money pit for little return.

I have a Rega Apollo been suggested a better dac be a better upgrade route than trying to fix the cd3?

Opinions and thoughts welcome

Thanks
 
Hi,
Up until recently there were a few commercial people who frequent this forum that could work on these. Avondale Audio and I think Arkless Electronics (possibly also Witch hat). I should think it's worth attempting to get it back working.

I am on my 2nd attempt on computer Audio using a DAC and my Ancient Naim CDi takes some beating (on an emotional level - new DACs can beat it on a technical level - especially the high frequency resolution). So sticking with a well loved player is certainly a good option.


Regards

Simon
 
I would expect an Apollo-R to be better than the CD3. I had a CD3.5, which is not the same as the CD3 but it'll be in the ball park. It was ok but really not great when compared to more modern machines.

A Rega dac cost £250 to £300 and has a much more analogue sound while still being rhythmically tight. And it's not going to be a repair money pit going forward.
 
I would go for the CD3 too.
The Apollo R is a Wolfson Delta-Sigma & despite having more obvious resolution and ticking all the hifi buttons when sitting in front of it, I was unable to live with it.

I noticed an interesting phenomenon, particularly when NOT actively listening, but while sitting 1 storage higher with open doors on the computer...music coming distant from the living room.
With Delta-Sigmas (Wolfson & Sabre the same), something in my brain decides there is noise downstairs & consequently shuts down attention completely.
I'm basicly just waiting the CD to be over.

With any other Dac design TDA, whatever..it may have less obvious resolution, but I still hear some girl named Nina Simone downstairs who seems to have trouble with her boyfriend...and it doesn't distract me, but just integrates into my being-there like some pleasant smell.
I'm not waiting for the CD to be over...just realize with some delay it has obviously stopped a while ago..

In my 'I wanna try these new DACs, they have to be better'-phase I realised after a while I was not listening to CDs anymore at all, but started listening only records.

It's hard to describe what it is,
but it's a bit like you leave your house on a nice sunny day, have trees in the garden,
everything seems ok, but your alarm goes off.
You hear distant traffic, the neighbours chatter...but no birds sing. Not a single piep.
That's when you know something is wrong.

Doesn't have to apply to everybody, some don't seem to hear it at all the way I do & thus if they don't have any issue with it I see no reason why they shouldn't use it,,,for Cinema applications the Sabre is perfectly fine to me instead.
Long story short, I'd take a TDA1541 or whatever dac over Delta-Sigma anytime,
the Apollo-R is an excellent CD drive though,,,grab the raw digital , stick some s/h Metrum Octave or similar DAC to it & you have a very nice digital front end.

ps: I'm still prescribed for the Sabre based Westlake dac, which to me meanwhile has the longest thread attention to a stillbirth I have ever experienced in my life.
 
Hi all thanks for the reply trying to get the price down on the cd3 as it seems bits are scarce my main question was just how wild you can you go (with a limited budget) in upgrades to an old player for instance can you fit a newer or more available transport or dac?

My concern is to make it work will cost more than buying an off the shelf player some say the cd3 is mediocre others love it. My question and forgive my ignorance is can you mod it or not worth it?

Regards the Rega Apollo it's the very last of the full size case I have I bought it just as the Apollo-r was coming out. Am told it has a good transport but inferior dac compared to the r model. I don't dislike the Apollo and tbh will wait until my nait is serviced and try it with that. I just found with the brio-r it was a bit bright and too refined at times. My background is rotel and naim so different kind of sound I guess.

To really mix it up I bought a marantz cd6006ukse which worked ok with the brio-r and will see what it is like when I get the nait 5i back. My eventual combo will be my 72 with hopefully a 140 and either a hicap or recently acquired sound magic PSU.
I want a cd source that does them justice, only issue is then I will want to upgrade the speakers as well and so it goes on and on eh
 
Take care with eventual shipping of the CD3.
The most recent one I purchased, the owner was completely un-qualified to pack safe, it arrived damaged.
I'd avoid any carrier unless all original packing material, transit screw etc. available.

As for Rega players, they are among the few I can replace with my Naim's.
Use Apollo as transport and get a s/h Rega dac, they are todays bargain ime.
Maybe not the immidiate admirer but they grow on you (me)
 
It would certainly be worth modding as a hobby. The CD3 used what is regarded by many people as one of the best combinations of DAC and transport mechanisms ever. Back in those days new models came out, not because they were an upgrade but because component manufacturers had stopped making the good bits you'd used before and you had to make do with the cheaper stuff available now. So even if you could use a different type of transport and DAC, you don't want to as the ones in the CD3 are the among best available.

Most mods to this player involve improving the power supply but this guy has done the most comprehensive mods to the CD3 I've seen: LINK

I disagree about modern players being no good though. My Rega Saturn-R is one of the best players I've heard regardless of price. I would expect a modded CD3 to also be very good but it might not be simple or cheap to do and both the transport and DAC chips are old and known to fail eventually. If you want a hobby I'd say go for it but if you just want to play music I'd look at something else.

How much is the CD3? If someone gave me a dead one very cheaply I'd at least try to get it working.
 
@ Mr.Pig: I'm not saying the new dac are not good in absolute terms.
It is that it seems some people cannot live with them longterm, whereas others don't seem to have any issues with them.
In which case I don't see an issue using them, I think there's no right or wrong in absolute terms in this case.
I have an impression since quite a while that people are hearing in very different way, and that's why partly discussions about if something sounds good or not are getting a bit out of hands easily.

...and on topic once more: I like the looks of the CD3 a lot, too.
And to me it's also a relevant part if an object I am living with looks to my taste.

I'd ask the seller if you could try to repair the CD3 and only pay for it if the repair is sucessful,
so you don't get stranded on a sinking ship ?
 
torstoi said:
I'm not saying the new dac are not good in absolute terms. It is that it seems some people cannot live with them long term..
Click to expand...

I do understand what you are saying and I agree, we no doubt to not all listen to things in the same way. Personally, I would have to say that I find most CD players difficult to listen to long term! The old ones were not special, they still sounded 'digital', especially at higher volume.
 
Mr Pig said:
I do understand what you are saying and I agree, we no doubt to not all listen to things in the same way. Personally, I would have to say that I find most CD players difficult to listen to long term! The old ones were not special, they still sounded 'digital', especially at higher volume.
Click to expand...

It's a point of view. That said, there were numerous reasons why many of us were disappointed by CD back in the eighties. We had systems and brains optimized for vinyl. Audio engineers were unfamiliar with digital. There were blind alleys like pre-emphasis. I had a CD3 and liked the sound, I sold it 10 years ago because I needed the money and was mainly streaming, not for any deficiency in the sound vs more modern DACs. The test as always would be to have an old vs modern DAC in a blind test and compare. I suspect they would sound close.

Tim
 
Archimago had a go at DAC comparisons

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/05/blind-test-results-part-3-do-digital.html

See also the quote from Stereophile referenced there:

GOLDEN EARS?

Were early CD players as screechy-sounding as many audiophiles have maintained over the years? To find out the Prairie State Audio Construction Society, a Chicago-area club, conducted a blind listening test comparing a prototype Philips CD100 14-bit player (serial number 345) — one of the first models launched in the US — with a Sony CDP-MESD 18-bit reference player. During the ten-trial test. the administrator switched between the two units, which played copies Of the same CD at precisely matched levels. While most of the eleven listeners were unable to reliably tell the two players apart, one participant did correctly identify them all ten times — although he admitted that he was largely guessing. Test organizer Tom Perazella. acknowledging that an audible difference did exist between the two CD players. described it as "quite small at best and nowhere near the earth-shaking differences attributed by the 'Golden Ears.'"

In another blind test performed by the club. four listeners compared the same Sony 18-bit player With a Panasonic portable 1-bit CD player. None were able to reliably discern a difference between the two. Says Perazella: "So much for the inferiority of single-bit units. This is especially interesting in light of claims by some of a lack of bass. rhythm. and drive."​

Tim
 
I've hated blind testing for many years and this is a reasonable example of why. If you look through history you will find many instances of blind testing throwing up patently ridiculous results, yet their advocates defend them.

Just because you wear a lab coat doesn't mean that you cannot be an idiot. Inventing a test methodology does guarantee truth if your tests are flawed.

Go and do your own research in to why blind testing does not work. I'd pretty bored but not bored enough to do it for you.
 
Well took a punt on the cd3 as I really love the look of the olive case tbh yes might be a dead end but who knows probably paid too much at just less than £100 the other half thinks I have lost the plot!
On a plus note the Rega Apollo has really come to life with new interconnects and fee from a RA silencer block. Am enjoying it now so think whatever the cd3 ends up like it's going to have a pretty hard act to follow.
Am genuinely blown away with how different the Apollo sounds might just be prolonged use to warn up as they say. To be fair it has been in storage for years so like brand new.

Am not ditching the cd3 just yet but need to clear out a few bits to clear up cash this becomes an expensive hobby!
 
I'd say £100 was a good deal. Just take your time and have fun finding out how it works.

I love the design and ergonomics of these early Naim CD players. Big, clunky buttons for the main functions and they used the same remote language as Philips so you can use a old Philips remote to work them. Get a spare spuck for the day you spin it inside the player...
 
One thing for sure every Naim player win on the display

Just a bit dark in room and impossible for me to read the rather lousy Rega display
They have changed front-look plenty, perhaps look at that red light
 
PerF said:
One thing for sure every Naim player win on the display. Just a bit dark in room and impossible for me to read the rather lousy Rega display.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the list of ergonomic problems with the Saturn-R is a long one. In fact there is no area of user interaction that could not be better. I don't understand. Rega never struck me as a style over function company but that's exactly what they've done. Shame when the player sounds go nice that they make it so sticky to use.
 
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