Naim Audio DBL loudspeakers. Any review
- Thread starter Peter_Tos
- Start date
yuckyamson
pfm Member
Heard dbls at the factory right after the 1993 renovation. Julian was just finishing up some tweaking and they were breaking in. Paul Desmond gave me the tour.
First we went into a smaller adjacent room and listened to active sbls with CDI/82/sc/180s. (Might have been two hicaps).
I couldn't believe the slam and taught, coherent delivery. I finally understood the appeal of sbls.
Then we walked over to the dbls. Things just got that much bigger, better, and more impressive (granted all the electronics were a level up too).
They are remarkable. Not perfect but remarkable.
First we went into a smaller adjacent room and listened to active sbls with CDI/82/sc/180s. (Might have been two hicaps).
I couldn't believe the slam and taught, coherent delivery. I finally understood the appeal of sbls.
Then we walked over to the dbls. Things just got that much bigger, better, and more impressive (granted all the electronics were a level up too).
They are remarkable. Not perfect but remarkable.
I've never liked any Focal speakers, they never sound right to me, just very 'hyped up' if you know what I mean. Naim and Focal are indeed veyr strange bedfellows. People who love the Naim sound are unlikely to like Focal and vice versa. They are just not a good combination, and each appeals to different types of listeners.
Mr Underhill
pfm Member
That's not my experience. A friend own a pair of Focal 1028 be on the end of CD555, PS555, 552, 500. Sounds superb. Another has cheaper Focals on the end of Olive amps. Both great systems.
I have heard Focals sounding sharp and unpleasant too.
They have been owned by investors for a decade now.
Its a matter of maximise profit, those Focals are way overpriced and sound nothing like any Naim speaker.
Naim's latest range of own speakers were Ovators.
DBL and nSats were discontinued quite late too.
Its a real pity Naim speakers didn't evolve more.
SBL were one of their very first design, they still hold its own against many others, one of the few speakers that works right up against rear wall.
Yes Naim and Focal are owned by private equity. They've changed hands at least once over the last decade, again to another set of private equity players. We've discussed this before, I don't really want to get into it but personally I would never buy anything (other than cheap commodity products) from a brand owned by these type of investors. I should know, I used to work in the industry.
nuit73
nuit73
I heard the Naim DBL at Paul Stephenson home in 1994.(with a six-pack of 135)
They sound great ! And Paul plays electric-guitar on his system (awesome!)
But the mid-driver was not the best one...on the DBL
Paul Stephenson say me the mid-driver are from a big stock of Mordaunt-short spare and they cost him only 6 GBP per unit!
There is a good step to change and upgrade the mid-driver with a new Kef B110 from Falcon.
here: https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/b...0-8-ohm-kef-b110-sp1003-replacement-pair.html
They sound great ! And Paul plays electric-guitar on his system (awesome!)
But the mid-driver was not the best one...on the DBL
Paul Stephenson say me the mid-driver are from a big stock of Mordaunt-short spare and they cost him only 6 GBP per unit!
There is a good step to change and upgrade the mid-driver with a new Kef B110 from Falcon.
here: https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/b...0-8-ohm-kef-b110-sp1003-replacement-pair.html
xtinct1
Naimee
Being slightly nervous about running such old speakers, over the years I've sought out possible replacements, but none have done the trick, so I've given up. I've a spare pair of tweeters in the cupboard, ATC will refurbish the 15” bass drivers, & someone on the Naim forum has managed to source a good midrange driver replacement. I really thought the Kudos 808s would do the trick, so I had a pair at home for a few days. Nope. Large ATC actives? Same.
—-what about the modern ATC active alternatives didn’t compare will to the DBLs. Which particular speakers please?
—-what about the modern ATC active alternatives didn’t compare will to the DBLs. Which particular speakers please?
John Channing
fruit box forever
I've had the SBLs for a long time now, they were bought in mint condition for a bargain price 2nd hand. They are powered by Teddy Pardo PR1/2*MB100, this is unquestionably a very good match. I previously had Naim amplification including a 250.2 and the TP rig is a cut above anything from Naim. You would have to spend 552/500 money to get anything even remotely comparable in terms of sound quality. It's a great shame Teddy stopped the amplifier line as these products were truly exceptional.
Looking at the SBLs now in 2023, and maybe without rose-tinted spectacles, the design is innovative but flawed. A bit like a prototype that was never properly finished and made ready for production. It is not surprising therefore that they had little appeal outside the Naim faithful.
Looking at the SBLs now in 2023, and maybe without rose-tinted spectacles, the design is innovative but flawed. A bit like a prototype that was never properly finished and made ready for production. It is not surprising therefore that they had little appeal outside the Naim faithful.
jonnoshore
physicist, engineer and healer
I still have my IBLs and a snaxo24.I've owned the IBLs, SBLs and DBLs, all for long periods. I like them all; the best were the DBLs, and the most disappointing in hindsight were the SBLs (probably because they were in a space that was too big for them). The DBLs were great speakers if a bit idiosyncratic. I stand by this view based not only on my own 20 year ownership of them but having heard them many times in various configurations and spaces of at least 6 other owners.
Will I acquire them today? Probably not. They are long out of production, drivers are no longer available and the damping foam lining the internal walls of the cabinets would have crumbled into dust. In fact, these are the reasons why I sold them.
But I still have my IBLs. They have the closest sound to the DBLs, just without the low bass.
The IBLs are powered by a SP1 XPAC2 SAM40 currently.
If funds allow at some point I'd like to get them active again maybe with a pair of sealed subs. I suspect that is the closest I'll get to DBLs
I certainly preferred my IBLs to my SBLs when I had both and the IBLs were active at one point with CB 250s.
I am intrigued by the Fosi ZA3 which can be monoed and one YouTuber who also had a Supernait said it got close enough to sell his SN3. 4 ZA3s may be a way to activate the IBLs if a second SAM40 does not appear.
Emcee
Iconoclast
I just received a ZA3 this morning and also own an XS 2 (70w version). The ZA3 appears to have spent the night in the delivery truck (at -10c) so I'll give it another hour or so to warm up and ''dry out'' before turning it on. Will report back later...I still have my IBLs and a snaxo24.
The IBLs are powered by a SP1 XPAC2 SAM40 currently.
If funds allow at some point I'd like to get them active again maybe with a pair of sealed subs. I suspect that is the closest I'll get to DBLs
I certainly preferred my IBLs to my SBLs when I had both and the IBLs were active at one point with CB 250s.
I am intrigued by the Fosi ZA3 which can be monoed and one YouTuber who also had a Supernait said it got close enough to sell his SN3. 4 ZA3s may be a way to activate the IBLs if a second SAM40 does not appear.
Emcee
Iconoclast
After an hour or so of listening I can say that this is a great little amp, especially at the asking price. Is it better than my Nait XS 2? Hard to say because I'm not equipped to do A/B testing. First impressions: equal or slightly better tone quality and slightly more 3D than the Nait but possibly not as agile. Definitely not the stereotypical class D sound that I would have expected from such a cheap component.
Bottom line..if I already owned one of these and decided to upgrade by buying a new Nait XS3 or SN3 at the current asking prices I'd be setting myself up for a major disappointment soundwise.
That being said, I bought my XS 2 at a very good price when it launched 10 years ago and definitely got my money's worth.
I don't intend on selling it (yet) either mainly because it provides more pride of ownership and fills rack space better than the Lilliputian ZA3.
Bottom line..if I already owned one of these and decided to upgrade by buying a new Nait XS3 or SN3 at the current asking prices I'd be setting myself up for a major disappointment soundwise.
That being said, I bought my XS 2 at a very good price when it launched 10 years ago and definitely got my money's worth.
I don't intend on selling it (yet) either mainly because it provides more pride of ownership and fills rack space better than the Lilliputian ZA3.
jonnoshore
physicist, engineer and healer
Interesting..After an hour or so of listening I can say that this is a great little amp, especially at the asking price. Is it better than my Nait XS 2? Hard to say because I'm not equipped to do A/B testing. First impressions: equal or slightly better tone quality and slightly more 3D than the Nait but possibly not as agile. Definitely not the stereotypical class D sound that I would have expected from such a cheap component.
Bottom line..if I already owned one of these and decided to upgrade by buying a new Nait XS3 or SN3 at the current asking prices I'd be setting myself up for a major disappointment soundwise.
That being said, I bought my XS 2 at a very good price when it launched 10 years ago and definitely got my money's worth.
I don't intend on selling it (yet) either mainly because it provides more pride of ownership and fills rack space better than the Lilliputian ZA3.
There is also the mono block option and then the discrete op amp swaps. I know that more than doubles the cost.. but
Here is the video:
I know it's using YouTube compression etc but still this guy is comparing it to a Supernait 3.
For me 4x ZA3s in mono may be way to get my IBLs active again.
Of course 2x ZA3 could also do that..
TBH I think the DBLs are disappointing for all the fantastical hype built up around them. I was a DBL owner for some time but sold them on to a Naim enthusiast. Yeah yeah yeah, the 15" ATC driver is pretty nice I agree, but the treble and mid drivers are mediocre at best. There's better-sounding speakers around at lower prices. "Motorised wardrobe" is a good way to describe them
Emcee
Iconoclast
Yes, and you could potentially convert into a pure power amp by bypassing the volume control internally. As far as op amps go, I ordered a few IC op amps just for fun. The NE5532 that the ZA3 comes with is an old design, nothing wrong with it but it's a bit more ''in your face'' than some of the newer more linear ones, just depends what flavor you're looking for. I went down that rabbit hole big time a few years ago on an Eastern Electric DAC and compare it to cable swapping, although much cheaper. However I doubt that I'll be going for discrete ones this time around, a question of diminishing returns and the fact that discrete op amps cost more than the actual amp.Interesting..
There is also the mono block option and then the discrete op amp swaps. I know that more than doubles the cost.. but
Here is the video:
I know it's using YouTube compression etc but still this guy is comparing it to a Supernait 3.
For me 4x ZA3s in mono may be way to get my IBLs active again.
Of course 2x ZA3 could also do that..
Tony L
Administrator
TBH I think the DBLs are disappointing for all the fantastical hype built up around them. I was a DBL owner for some time but sold them on to a Naim enthusiast. Yeah yeah yeah, the 15" ATC driver is pretty nice I agree, but the treble and mid drivers are mediocre at best. There's better-sounding speakers around at lower prices. "Motorised wardrobe" is a good way to describe them
I have to admit I’m with you there. I knew two people with them, one powered with 3x500, the other six 135s. I never liked them, could never relax with them. I think my problem was that they just didn’t integrate into a coherent whole for me, like Isobariks I was always conscious of individual drivers doing their thing and slicing the music horizontally. This may have been hindered by rooms, despite not being at all small, not being large enough. Hand on heart I preferred my Kans, they just connected me to the music better. I much prefer the SBL to them, in fact SBLs are the only Naim speaker I can cope with, and even then it is a rare room that they really work in. They can sound really good though, and the IBL is good in tiny rooms too. The NBLs are maybe the worst speakers I’ve ever heard! They sound like three/four random drivers thrown at a wardrobe to my ears. Just zero integration or coherence.
PS I suspect SuffolkTony has his DBLs right. You probably need to be that far away for them to integrate. Neither system I knew was anything like that. It also needs to be qualified that I have no interest at all in high volume. The very last thing I’m after is a live rock band playing in my living room!
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
What a freaking great idea for a project.
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
If owned those speakers.... I would be doing it. great hifi fun. I love it.
Kraus
pfm Member
Yes - unlike other speakers which are uninnovative and perfect?
rontoolsie
pfm Member
The DBLs are one of the most difficult speakers I have owned to get to sound right. They are ruthless at highlighting deficiencies upstream, especially if they resonate with their own weaknesses.
I had the DBLs set up for a couple years in a magical environment. They imaged as well as any planar or electrostatic speakers, had a tighter and more tuneful bass than I have ever heard and dynamics to die for. They really offered an 'out of body' listening experience that was almost spiritual.
But the room was ultra-optimized. I had the flooring under the DBL's reinforced and put in an illegal 200A unfused dedicated line direct from a pole top transformer to power up the 6x135/52 etc. The Wiremold power strips were hard-wired into the circuit breaker as well, instead of terminated into wall sockets. The rear wall MUST be solid. And for passive users, the PAXO was very poor and needed to be replaced by a much higher spec equivalent.
When I moved I could no longer used highly illegal AC feeds to the Naim equipment, and the sound quality tumbled. They went from the single best speaker I had ever heard to one of the worst, although the electronics were identical.
There are probably only around 150 pairs of DBLs ever made/sold, and I know a goodly fraction of the original owners. They really are a little bit of heaven and a little bit of hell...I am virtually certain that 90% of owners never even came close to tapping into their potential.
I had the DBLs set up for a couple years in a magical environment. They imaged as well as any planar or electrostatic speakers, had a tighter and more tuneful bass than I have ever heard and dynamics to die for. They really offered an 'out of body' listening experience that was almost spiritual.
But the room was ultra-optimized. I had the flooring under the DBL's reinforced and put in an illegal 200A unfused dedicated line direct from a pole top transformer to power up the 6x135/52 etc. The Wiremold power strips were hard-wired into the circuit breaker as well, instead of terminated into wall sockets. The rear wall MUST be solid. And for passive users, the PAXO was very poor and needed to be replaced by a much higher spec equivalent.
When I moved I could no longer used highly illegal AC feeds to the Naim equipment, and the sound quality tumbled. They went from the single best speaker I had ever heard to one of the worst, although the electronics were identical.
There are probably only around 150 pairs of DBLs ever made/sold, and I know a goodly fraction of the original owners. They really are a little bit of heaven and a little bit of hell...I am virtually certain that 90% of owners never even came close to tapping into their potential.