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More tyres!

Paul, you know that there is only one sensible answer. Take it out FAR more frequently and drive it with some intent. Then in another year when they are below 4mm, you can renew them and you'll have had your use. You know it makes sense.
 
Well, it all comes down to how you'd feel if you lost control and had an accident with them on. Let's say you got badly injured, or hurt someone else, would you feel that it was just an accident, and couldn't have been avoided?

Once you'd decided this, you'll know whether they need changing.
 
stevec67 said:
Paul, you know that there is only one sensible answer. Take it out FAR more frequently and drive it with some intent. Then in another year when they are below 4mm, you can renew them and you'll have had your use. You know it makes sense.
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No, it doesn't. Paul has old, sub-optimal tyres and you're encouraging him to drive his widow-making 911 with "some intent" just so he gets his money's worth?!

Personally, I have experienced first hand what old, but barely used tyres feel like in direct comparison with fresh tyres of identical make and model, and that's on an AWD Subaru. I wouldn't use old tyres on a performance car, but then I'm neither cheap nor reckless. ;)
 
James said:
No, it doesn't. Paul has old, sub-optimal tyres and you're encouraging him to drive his widow-making 911 with "some intent" just so he gets his money's worth?!

Personally, I have experienced first hand what old, but barely used tyres feel like in direct comparison with fresh tyres of identical make and model, and that's on an AWD Subaru. I wouldn't use old tyres on a performance car, but then I'm neither cheap nor reckless. ;)
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As noted earlier, I felt the difference on a diesel 106, it was quite significant.

They might be okay, but then by the same token, they might not be. I'd change them.

BTW, my dad who works in a senior position for VOSA says that it's illegal to sell tyres over six years old because dependent on the conditions they have been stored in, even if they are unused, can begin to perish.
 
From Michelin's UK website:

"After five years or more in service, your tyres should be thoroughly inspected at least once per year. If the need arises, follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer regarding replacing the original equipment tyres. As a precaution, if the tyres have not been replaced 10 years from their date of manufacture (see how to read a tyre sidewall), Michelin recommends replacing them with new tyres. Even if they appear to be in usable condition and have not worn down to the tread wear indicator."
 
stevec67 said:
Paul, you know that there is only one sensible answer. Take it out FAR more frequently and drive it with some intent. Then in another year when they are below 4mm, you can renew them and you'll have had your use. You know it makes sense.
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Quite right! The operative words being "with some intent."
 
Cesare said:
Well, it all comes down to how you'd feel if you lost control and had an accident with them on. Let's say you got badly injured, or hurt someone else, would you feel that it was just an accident, and couldn't have been avoided?

Once you'd decided this, you'll know whether they need changing.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are wise and quite right. It is not being stingy that has held me back so far, but the fear of spending money pointlessly. But you are quite right, tomorrow I'll call the tyre place. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.
 
James said:
No, it doesn't. Paul has old, sub-optimal tyres and you're encouraging him to drive his widow-making 911 with "some intent" just so he gets his money's worth?!

Personally, I have experienced first hand what old, but barely used tyres feel like in direct comparison with fresh tyres of identical make and model, and that's on an AWD Subaru. I wouldn't use old tyres on a performance car, but then I'm neither cheap nor reckless. ;)
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You are also perfectly right, James. However, I take exception to "widow-making." The old 911 is very different from all other cars, it took me months to really get the hang of how to drive it. Now it has become instinctive and feels very safe and predictable (I will now touch my testicles and make "horns" with both hands to ward off bad luck).
You have to think of it as a large go-kart, with all the weight, traction and grip at the back, and everything falls into place.
 
PaulMB said:
However, I take exception to "widow-making." The old 911 is very different from all other cars, it took me months to really get the hang of how to drive it. Now it has become instinctive and feels very safe and predictable (I will now touch my testicles and make "horns" with both hands to ward off bad luck).
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I meant no offence, Paul. I do know that the 911 requires a different learned behaviour to drive fast safely. It's a bit like the good old shaft-drive motorcycles. The last thing you do when you find going into a corner a bit too fast is to shut the throttle off, which is the most instinctive thing to do. This is why FWD cars are inherently safer because when understeer sets in, throttling off returns bite to the front wheels. If you have programmed your instincts to be counter-intuitive on that count in a crisis, then I'm sure you'll be OK.
 
James said:
I meant no offence, Paul. I do know that the 911 requires a different learned behaviour to drive fast safely. It's a bit like the good old shaft-drive motorcycles. The last thing you do when you find going into a corner a bit too fast is to shut the throttle off, which is the most instinctive thing to do. This is why FWD cars are inherently safer because when understeer sets in, throttling off returns bite to the front wheels. If you have programmed your instincts to be counter-intuitive on that count in a crisis, then I'm sure you'll be OK.
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Oh, James, how could you possibly offend? I never even remotely felt offended. You are quite right, if someone without much sense and no experience suddenly tried to drive it fast. It is much more "peculiar" than the later 911s, although I remember reading a review of it in the late 1980s in which the reviewer complained that it was too "civilised" to be much fun compared to its predecessors.
I don't really "think" much when driving it, but I've noticed that if you go into a corner fast and suddenly lift off it tends to suddenly oversteer, but if you gently reduce the throttle, it actually helps you to go round the corner as the rear end drifts out a little and the nose goes in. It is certainly counter-intuitive when one is used to FWD cars, a bit easier if you are used to front-engined RWD. Having grown up on motorbikes probably helps, too.
 
James said:
This is why FWD cars are inherently safer because when understeer sets in, throttling off returns bite to the front wheels. If you have programmed your instincts to be counter-intuitive on that count in a crisis, then I'm sure you'll be OK.
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But a well setup FWD will transition into oversteer on sudden lift-off, due to weight transfer.

The counter-intuitive aspect of FWD is that you apply power in over-steer situations. I think the predominance of FWD is mostly about economics and interior space, rather than 'inherent safety', other than that given a very forward weight distribution, FWD is probably preferable.

911s are, of course, a slightly different thing.

Paul
 
James said:
No, it doesn't. Paul has old, sub-optimal tyres and you're encouraging him to drive his widow-making 911 with "some intent" just so he gets his money's worth?!

Personally, I have experienced first hand what old, but barely used tyres feel like in direct comparison with fresh tyres of identical make and model, and that's on an AWD Subaru. I wouldn't use old tyres on a performance car, but then I'm neither cheap nor reckless. ;)
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James, tongue in cheek comment to be viewed alongside the earlier one I made. I'm not suggesting anyone do anything reckless, and there is no evidence that 8yr old tyres in good condition are in any way unsafe. As I said in my (serious) comment, there is no *right* answer. Even Michelin only *recommend* replacement after 10 years. If it were as simple as that then there would be a requirement to change all tyres every x years. There isn't. As with many things in life it comes down to personal judgement.
 
stevec67 said:
James, tongue in cheek comment to be viewed alongside the earlier one I made.
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Sorry I missed that, Steve, but I suspected you weren't entirely serious and hence my winky smiley.

stevec67 said:
... there is no evidence that 8yr old tyres in good condition are in any way unsafe.
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Rubber is perishable and any 8 year-old tyre, no matter how well stored, would not be as good as when it was freshly made. Now, whether that constitutes a safety hazard would depend on a critical examination of its condition. But there is safety in avoiding catastrophic failure, and safety in maximum adhesion. I suspect regulatory bodies worry more about the former and less about the latter. Otherwise, there's a bunch of cheap Chinese-made ripoff tyres that should be banned for safety reasons.

stevec67 said:
...As I said in my (serious) comment, there is no *right* answer. Even Michelin only *recommend* replacement after 10 years. If it were as simple as that then there would be a requirement to change all tyres every x years. There isn't. As with many things in life it comes down to personal judgement.
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A bit like cambelts, I take it. :D
 
I wouldn't run 8 year old rubber on any sportscar.

Yokohamas come in many different types, some are fine for road cars.

I've run lots of tyres, Goodyear Eagle F1's are working nicely on my daily driver. Some Sportscars really benefit from stiffer sidewalls, best to check forums for opinion and advice.
 
No matter what we do while driving there are only two parameters we can influence: Speed (faster or slower) and steering (left or right). When this fact is understood, it is obvious that the most critic element in safety are the tires. No reason to save in this part of waiting too long if someone cares about his life.

Arye
 
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