advertisement


LP12 Origins

This comes from an old vinyl asylum thread:

"In 1972, the late Jack Yan Tiefenbrun filed a pair of provisional patent specifications for a simple point-contact bearing, and followed them up in June 1973 with a complete specification claiming 'improvements in, or relating to, gramophone record playing apparatus'. The application was accepted by the British Patent Office and published as BP1394611.

In May of 1975, following the publication of the Tiefenbrun patent, an opposition was lodged by turntable manufacturer Fergus Fons Ltd and the late William James 'Hamish' Robertson. Fons, nee Robertson, opposed the patent on various grounds, including that 'what was being claimed as new, was in fact old', and that the idea was 'lacking in inventive step' over what was already known. A further ground of opposition was that the invention had been 'obtained' from Hamish Robertson, and was his original idea rather than that of Jack Tiefenbrun.

Jack Tiefenbrun had formed Castle Precision Engineering (Glasgow) Ltd some 15 years earlier. Hamish Robertson had a company called Thermac in 1967, which became Ariston in 1970, and Ariston Audio in 1973. In 1970 Jack's son Ivor formed a friendship with Hamish. In 1971 Ivor made a prototype turntable with a ball bearing, and then went off to Israel. While Ivor was away, Jack and Hamish changed the ball bearing to a single point bearing. Robertson's company Thermac then ordered forty of the turntables from Castle Precision Engineering Ltd. In 1971, and now operating as Ariston, Hamish showed the turntable under the model name RD11 at the Harrogate show, and set up a distribution network with C. J. Walker and Company.

By the end of 1972 relations between Robertson and the Tiefenbruns had broken down. This allegedly led to a threat to Robertson that a copyright action would be brought against him if he had the RD11 turntable made elsewhere than at Castle Precision Engineering.

In February of 1973 Linn Products Ltd was formed to sell turntables made by Castle Precision Engineering. Robertson left Ariston, which by now had been taken over by Dunlop Westayr Ltd, and became director of Fergus Fons Ltd.

In the end, the Fons, nee Robertson opposition to the Tiefenbrun patent was rejected."
 
Looks like Feb 2013 is the LP12's 40th birthday then. Wonder if Linn has anything 'major' planned? Will we get to the £20k mark with it?
 
You need to be more precise. And justify 'well before' since AFAICS the single point Thorens bearing didn't arrive until the TD125-II in 1972. So later than the Ariston/Castle/Linn prototypes.

Paul
 
Not true. The switch from the captive ball to the radiused tip shaft came as a running change to the TD-125 Mk1.
When?

'Well before' implies to me many years, so mid 60s? A bit careless of the patent examiners not to spot the prior art.

Paul
 
I picked up a RD11S from a carboot sale not long ago and it has an tonearm made by ultracraft.

There is ery little information about this brand on the web. I guess it is not an original arm and was fitted later.

Anyone here can shed some light on this?
 
There was no particular original tonearm really, as Ariston Audio didn't provide own branded OEMs (made by Jelco in Japan) until many years later.

I have scans of the RD11s brochure and owner's manual here someplace. Drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll forward them on.

Craig
 
When? 'Well before' implies to me many years, so mid 60s? A bit careless of the patent examiners not to spot the prior art.
Paul

I can't give you an exact date, but was certainly before anyone had seen an LP12! The TD-125 entered production in 1968, and the early ones had a captured ball bearing. The change to the radiused tip bearing came later in the Mk 1 run, and the switchover to the Mk2 was in late 1971. All of this was "well before" IT had built anything.
 
The LP12 was introduced in 1972, so it's not that far off. No doubt Hamish and the two Ts had been working on the bearing for some time before. The RD11 was introduced in 1971.

Paul R, that's my thinking, too. Hamish/Ts certainly knew what Thorens were doing, but they chose the TD150 as the basis of their design.
 
There was no particular original tonearm really, as Ariston Audio didn't provide own branded OEMs (made by Jelco in Japan) until many years later.

I have scans of the RD11s brochure and owner's manual here someplace. Drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll forward them on.

Craig

I have retrieved the info from the link provided by Paul R - Thanks Chaps
Hoping to have it set up in a few weeks time and get back into playing records again.
 
This arrived last week. Low 4k serial puts it late 1974 or possible 1975.

IMG_0037.jpg



I got bored on Monday and ripped it to pieces:


IMG_0042.jpg
 
Who's knocking anything?
You are

I'm just presenting facts
Not really useful ones. The only fact you've presented is that Thorens replaced a captive ball in the end of the spindle with a pointy spindle at sometime before 1972. We could use more facts.

and I don't need your lessons about semantics, thank you.
Stick to the facts then.

Paul
 


advertisement


Back
Top