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Loft extensions and music rooms

W

wintoid

pfm Member
I live in a regular Victorian semi detached house. My hifi is currently in the smallest room in the house, which is the only room that is not connected to the neighbours. I can generally listen to music at whatever volume I like, even late at night, and I am not disturbing anyone. Wonderful! The only problem is that the room is rather small.

My wonderful wife thinks we need a loft extension, and she is very receptive to the idea that the hifi could move upstairs into the loft extension, which would mean a much bigger room. I am concerned that I might end up with a great room but listening to music there might disturb the neighbours as the room would connect to their house.

If I want this to be soundproofed, do you think a regular loft extension company can sort me out, or do I need a specialist? Is it reasonable to assume that the room could be soundproofed acceptably to allow me to continue with my late night listening sessions?

Any advice gratefully received!

Thanks

Simon
 
I would think you could reasonably insulate between you loft and the neighbour to cut down mid and high frequencies though it may be an expert job.
I suspect though that you'll not be able to stop bass frequencies as they pass through the house structure
 
The division between adjoining loft spaces in semis and terraces is often quite poor. I think you would do well to seek specialist advice. The conversion won't necessarily have to be done by a specialist contractor though, as long as they have good plans to work to and they do a competent job.
 
You need a surveyor to look at the structure. I have lived in a semi with a bit of blockwork between me and the neighbour, holes in it so I could see the junk in their loft. No sound insulation there. You need to build a sealed, solid wall, then a gap, then more solid material. A box in a box. It's easy enough but needs a little thought.
 
Yes a room within a room, supported by a visco elastic or damped spring coupling , sound will travel through even the tiniest conduit .
Keith.
 
We live in a rural 19th C end of terrace estate workers cottage. 20 years or so ago we had a loft conversion done, by a local specialist firm and the main HiFi has been up there ever since. I've played reasonably loud into the night through the children growing up below and the neighbours along side and never had any complaints. It has been a life saver, and it's easily the biggest room in the house; just for me and the music. (Thanks, dear wife !)
 
Thank you for all your comments. I'm seeing the word specialist in many responses :) Sounds like I need to find someone whose advice I trust. I only want to do this once, and I want to do it right.
 
wintoid said:
Thank you for all your comments. I'm seeing the word specialist in many responses :) Sounds like I need to find someone whose advice I trust. I only want to do this once, and I want to do it right.
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Wintoid.

Trust is nice but not as important as having established credentials and maybe examples of the same type of work where you go and hear/see how effective they are.

You may find out to you cost after work is completed that it sounded like it was going to be what you wanted but building a room entirley isolated from the structure it is in is far from a simple task and achieved by the domestic market.

Many like to believe others cannot hear a thing from their music but at night in the absence of environmentaal noise it is amazing what can be heard. Even door openings are a serious hole in your silence box/room.
 
wintoid said:
Thank you for all your comments. I'm seeing the word specialist in many responses :) Sounds like I need to find someone whose advice I trust. I only want to do this once, and I want to do it right.
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I know I'm coming in a bit late here, and without any specific constructional advice, but does your loft actually abut your neighbour's living areas? If so, presumably you're either on a steep hill or it's that your neighbour has also had a loft extension.

Personally, I'd willingly swap a sonically cramped room for a larger and more flexible space, as long as it has adequate height. Crooks and nannies, which you are likely to end up with in a loft, could be beneficial sonically.

Presumably you'll need to have new electrics up there; why not do it properly with a dedicated radial supply or multiples thereof? You may well find that you won't need to wind the wick up so much as your kit may well become more efficient in the new space and especially powered by its own supplies.

You can do what you can regarding insulation on the party wall, without incurring specialist fees (common sense should prevail) and a good carpet and thick underlay should do for sound travelling downwards (and in other directions to a lesser extent).

You don't say whether your speakers are floor or stand mounted, but your kit can, and probably will, change according to upgraditis or future circumstances, so don't base everything around what you have now.

My two-penn'orth.
 
I have defined and organised such work for the local Victorian pub, the costs are quite high and care needs to be taken to treat any holes and avoid transmission through timber. I am not a specialist but used an architect that knew the regulation for new build and adapted the requirements for the Victorian building. Bear in mind that the building inspector may/will carry out tests to check that the construction complies with the regulation. See building regulations at your local council offices.
 
Low frequencies are the hardest to prevent from travelling. As I type this I can hear my next door neighbours tv/radio but only the muffled lower frequencies of voice. No music involved.

Acoustic requirements and building regs are two quite diverse things. They may overlap but BR does not guarantee acoustic insulation. I have worked with an LA Building regs inspectors dept for a number of years and could enquire?
 
dr_mat said:
I would suggest you arrange to live next door to an elderly couple in future... :)
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I did this for years when I lived in Brighton and played loud music very regularly without issue.

I was on excellent terms with them as they were lovely people yet when I used to ask them if my music was too loud they used to say that they didn't realise that I was playing any!!!

Fantastic :D
 
Funnily enough I used to live in a modern house with paper thin walls, next to an elderly couple. I was always asking them whether they could hear my music, and whether I was disturbing them, and they always said no, which seemed amazing to me.

I genuinely need to feel like I'm not disturbing anyone to be able to relax and enjoy the music. I know what it feels like to live above someone who has absolutely no consideration for other people.

My neighbours do not have a loft extension, so there's no one occupying the adjacent area, but of course the bedrooms will be on the floor below. I'm on good terms with them, so will probably try to test to see whether I am bothering them once the work is done (which could be some way off).

The other alternative we're considering is splitting the extension into more rooms, and putting the hifi into a room not connected to the neighbours. Inevitably this would be a smaller room, but still larger than the downstairs room.
 
whatsnext said:
Low frequencies are the hardest to prevent from travelling. As I type this I can hear my next door neighbours tv/radio but only the muffled lower frequencies of voice. No music involved.

Acoustic requirements and building regs are two quite diverse things. They may overlap but BR does not guarantee acoustic insulation. I have worked with an LA Building regs inspectors dept for a number of years and could enquire?
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Modern BR have something about sound insulation in flats. The problem is older conversions or builds. I lived in a flat once that had nothing between the floorboards and the plasterboard ceiling. Sound transmission was awful, fortunately my neighbour was deaf as a post. Modern conversions require a floating floor (3mm ply typically), foam layer, then floorboards. This decouples the floor from the timbers. You may also want to get something solid between the rafters.
 
It might help if you offer to insulate their roof space.

A foot of wool would stop some noise and save them energy if it hasn't been done already.
 
we had a normal company do our loft conversion in a 1937 semi . its very well insulated with cellotex and I am pretty confident it is fairly good with sound
just make sure adjoining walls and floor are insulated
 
Steve is on the money re: acoustics and building regs (it's Part E, free download here I'd treat that and associated Robust Details as a starting point for review).

To get really good isolation from the bedrooms next door will take a bit of thought within the design of the project. The main issue is that it's difficult to get enough mass in place to easily provide a lot of isolation at LF; you find that the isolation of drywall drops off a lot at LF; and most especially because good acoustic isolation is straightforward to design but naturally remains very sensisitive to detailing and workmanship on installation.

For example, addressing one point aleready raised in thread: one simple trick to help before over-lining lining walls (with independant linings) is to use a parge coat - a base coat of gypsum plaster 6-8mm thick simply to seal the base masonry on party walls (esp the joints where mortar is often missing/poorly placed). When you are looking for 50dB+ of separation a hole the diameter of a pencil can measurably spoil the results...
 
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