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leben cs300xs or similar

Neil P

Neil P

pfm Member
I'd never considered a valve amp until the leben appeared in the classified and i drooled over it!

If I was to make the switch to a leben (or similar), what are the considerations? What would i gain / lose?

Someone made a comment that someone's speakers were "10 Ohm so probably even better for the amp." Can somebody explain that please?
 
What are your speakers? I've never owned any valve equipment but I am pretty sure low efficiency speakers won't tend to work well with it.

I am a big fan of vintage gear and DIY, so if I ever did try valves I'd probably be looking at something like one of the modern day Dynaco ST-70 kits.
 
booja30 said:
What are your speakers? I've never owned any valve equipment but I am pretty sure low efficiency speakers won't tend to work well with it.
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It is modern reactive loads that valve amps don’t like, e.g. aggressive port loading, impedance dips below 8 Ohms etc. I happily use a 10 Watt Leak with either LS3/5As or JR149s. Despite their being highly inefficient speakers the load (8-16 Ohm) is easy and you’d be crazy to want to listen to a little nearfield mini-monitor loudly, so the top of the Watt rating is irrelevant. When you do the maths there is available headroom over 90db, and no one would ever want to listen to a 5” driver handling more than that. Want loud? Buy big speakers!
 
Would be interested in amps that are similar to the Leben myself: I was considering the Leben that sold here recently but the lack of remote put me off in the end.

Anything out there similar, but with a remote?
 
I have a leben 300X which is not currently in use but can't bring myself to sell it. Saving it for retirement in a downsized house/room.

As an alternative I would suggest you consider one the Croft integrateds. I have used various Croft units in the past (25 preamp and 7r power amp) and thought they were excellent too. The advantage versus the Leben is that they are cheaper, they can come with a built in phono stage (none on the Leben) and I think their nominal power rating is higher too. You can get someone to retrofit a remote control - I think Audioflair in London used to do this.

Key downside - they aren't jewel like in construction as per the Leben. As to differences in SQ, thats a personal thing.
 
Had this Leben borrowed from my friend many months ago. Very good and powerful (had no problems with driving Harbeths SHL5, loudly with great control). Very good amp, but Croft (which I have) is better, more refined..
 
Seanm said:
Anything out there similar, but with a remote?
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The Luxman SQ-N150 fits the bill in that it is an exquisite Japanese EL84 amp complete with a remote control but you also get VU meters as a bonus.

041319NeoClassicoIntegrated-600.jpg
 
matt j said:
I had the sq100n without the VU meters, didn't think much of it truth be told. It looked nice though and the remote was handy.
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Sad to hear that Matt, I was just about to get starry-eyed. What didn't you like, if I can ask?
 
+1 for the Croft comment above, I prefer the 25R/7 combination but in general terms, my money's on Croft. I say this having owned a Leben CS300X. Not a mile in it but the utilitarian black boxes did it for me.
 
Neil P said:
I'd never considered a valve amp until the leben appeared in the classified and i drooled over it!

If I was to make the switch to a leben (or similar), what are the considerations? What would i gain / lose?

Someone made a comment that someone's speakers were "10 Ohm so probably even better for the amp." Can somebody explain that please?
Click to expand...

The problem with a valve amp of any kind is this: it has valves and valves blow. So basically you have to remember to turn it off, whenever you turn it on you’ll be wondering whether it’s going to work, and while you’ve got it on you’ll be thinking that you’re using up valuable, limited, valve time. You may wake up at three in the morning and remember you’ve left it on. You may leave it on for twelve hours while you’re asleep or out and come back to a burnt carpet and an expensive repair. You may brush your teeth, say your prayers, get into your PJs, snuggle up in the duvet with teddy, and suddenly think you didn’t turn it off, get up in the cold dark, go downstairs . . . only to find you did turn it off after all.

The way I use music, I would not have a valve amp in the system I use the most.

Not everyone agrees that there’s a distinct valve sound, and my one experience - a Radford - suggests to me that there isn’t. Evidence of one . . .

On the plus side, really excellent valve amps may be easier to find than really excellent solid state amps. At least, I’ve heard that said.
 
mandryka said:
The problem with a valve amp of any kind is this: it has valves and valves blow. So basically you have to remember to turn it off, whenever you turn it on you’ll be wondering whether it’s going to work, and while you’ve got it on you’ll be thinking that you’re using up valuable, limited, valve time. You may wake up at three in the morning and remember you’ve left it on. You may leave it on for twelve hours while you’re asleep or out and come back to a burnt carpet and an expensive repair. You may brush your teeth, say your prayers, get into your PJs, snuggle up in the duvet with teddy, and suddenly think you didn’t turn it off, get up in the cold dark, go downstairs . . . only to find you did turn it off after all.

The way I use music, I would not have a valve amp in the system I use the most.

Not everyone agrees that there’s a distinct valve sound, and my one experience - a Radford - suggests to me that there isn’t. Evidence of one . . .

On the plus side, really excellent valve amps may be easier to find than really excellent solid state amps. At least, I’ve heard that said.
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I do sort of feel the same, but wouldn't mind another go following my one experience with a valve amp, which was a Croft integrated.

Unlike most I had mixed feelings about the Croft: the imaging was really impressive but voices, pianos and strings didn't seem right to me at all. This was with Harbeth C7. Have Tannoys now.
 
Croft power amps use MOSFETs for output devices, don't they? So are not in the same category as power amps that use valves.

But lots of people like Croft... so perhaps the ideal, particularly if you have speakers which are not particularly valve-friendly, is valve preamplification with solid state power amplification?

I use a Primare Class D power amp which is very well suited to my speakers (they are a difficult load for valve power amps - not very sensitive and with challenging impedance dips). In front of it is a recently acquired valve buffer which I enjoy having in the system. Sort of secret sauce...

I would very much like to try a fine valve preamp, such as the conrad johnson PV12A line stage - but they seem to be pretty thin on the ground in the UK, hence my stopgap buffer stage.
 
mandryka said:
The problem with a valve amp of any kind is this: it has valves and valves blow. So basically you have to remember to turn it off, whenever you turn it on you’ll be wondering whether it’s going to work, and while you’ve got it on you’ll be thinking that you’re using up valuable, limited, valve time. You may wake up at three in the morning and remember you’ve left it on. You may leave it on for twelve hours while you’re asleep or out and come back to a burnt carpet and an expensive repair. You may brush your teeth, say your prayers, get into your PJs, snuggle up in the duvet with teddy, and suddenly think you didn’t turn it off, get up in the cold dark, go downstairs . . . only to find you did turn it off after all.

The way I use music, I would not have a valve amp in the system I use the most.

Not everyone agrees that there’s a distinct valve sound, and my one experience - a Radford - suggests to me that there isn’t. Evidence of one . . .

On the plus side, really excellent valve amps may be easier to find than really excellent solid state amps. At least, I’ve heard that said.
Click to expand...

In reality none of those things even cross your mind, you just use it like any other amp.
 
The longevity of valves is greatly misunderstood by modern audiophiles IMO. This largely being down to some truly crap valves and amps from China. Many of the latter being very cheaply spec’d for 220V and with a tendency to overheat or explode on the often 240V+ found in the UK. By comparison many Quad IIs etc still turn up running their original 1950s and 60s valves as they were properly designed and built. McIntosh, Leak, Audio Research etc too. The things that always need restoration in old amps are the resistors and capacitors which will have drifted wildly off spec if not serviced. The valves are likely fine for decades if they haven’t been stressed. Most times a vintage valve amp fails are down to this, i.e. the circuit (resistors, capacitors etc) is so far out of alignment that it places huge stress on the valves, which then fail.

Sure, no one in their right mind would leave a valve amp powered up 24/7 (that’s BS with any kit IMHO), and I’d not personally choose one for TV room duty, but for a typical audiophile usage of a couple of hours a night max you’ll likely get decades out of a valve set in a really good valve amp (either classic or new). Be very, very wary of cheap valve amps. They have never been cheap things to make well on materials cost or labour, so the bargain bucket stuff tends to be crap.

A good compromise is a valve preamp and a good solid state power amp. It does get you much of the way there sonically but with lower running cost and less heat.
 
In fact, Marchbanks has a cunning way of programming a wifi socket to turn the thing off automatically.
 
I'm using a little kel84 xl for all round lounge use at the mo', including tv duties. Decent el84 are not so expensive and having had several trouble-free valve amps I don't worry about reliability or it burning my house down, though I admit I always turn it off when I'll be out of the room for any period of time. As long as you match your speakers accordingly then it simply offers great sound quality for the money, and I do think that valves can add that little bit of magic though it's difficult to put your finger on it.
 
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