Just a phone...
- Thread starter Jim Audiomisc
- Start date
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
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Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
That they are still selling 2G/3G ones that will brick *without* telling the buyer this will happen.
FWIW Given that some of my work was for the old UK RadCom Agency I do have some knowledge of how the systems operate on an engineering level. The problem seems to be ensuring that people get told info they need to make a choice that suits *them*, not the sellers. That applies to the device *and* the connection package. That seems to be what people who support 'Free Market' economics seem to tell us we have.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
if you buy a 2G phone today and it stops working if 2G turns off in 2033? is that a problem?
We know 3G is going imminently, so its a case of buyer beware.
If you dont like it complain to trading standards.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I think that is the debating technique described as "Go for the man, not the ball".
Actually, it was ages ago but I think we knew *when* it was happening well in advance, and there were good reasons for it. But I'd need to check the old BBC Eng Dept. documents to be sure.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I've already dealt with that upthread:
1) Yes I will get a new phone, etc.
2) Note the problem that people are still buying new phones which are 2G/3G only without being told this detail.
From "Mobiles UK" after a 2 minute Google:
"What if I have a 3G or 2G only device?
If you’re using an older device that doesn’t allow you to use 4G or 5G, you’ll need to get a more modern one to continue to access your data.Your operator will contact you if this is the case and outline what steps you can take."
It goes on to tell us that this is going to happen "before 2030".
In other news I can no longer get 4* petrol for my pre-1990 car, my 400-odd line TV got turned off when we went to 625, and I can no longer get Capstan Full Strength gaspers. I can't hire VHS videos any more. My pulse-dial landline phone no longer works. Oh, and Wagon Wheels aren't as big as they used to be. The world changes, it's going to carry on changing whether you and I like it or not.
A working mobile phone is from £10 in any supermarket. So if your old one gets turned off, get another that works. You'll get some warning of this happening, so deal with it accordingly.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I'm not sure if every person in the UK actually does know when 3G will end. Indeed, I'm not sure every phone user knows 2G or 3G is a system they rely on.
2033 would be fine for me as I'll be dead by then. However...
Erm we don't know that 2G *will* switch off "in 2033". That is the most *distant* possible date. Different telcos may switch off before that at various times. Some have given (various) dates, others haven't as yet - Inc. the provider I use, according to the info I've found.
gez
pfm Member
As I posted previoulsy on this thread.
This is the official position by the way: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/252592/3G-and-2G-switch-off.pdf
Each MNO is setting its own timetable for switch-off
Each MNO has confirmed that its 3G network will be switched off first, starting from early 2023:
• Vodafone is starting its switch-off in early 2023
• EE plans to start its switch-off in early 2024
• Three expects to switch off by the end of 2024
• Virgin Media (VM)-O2 has not yet announced its planned 3G switch-off date.
This is the official position by the way: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/252592/3G-and-2G-switch-off.pdf
Each MNO is setting its own timetable for switch-off
Each MNO has confirmed that its 3G network will be switched off first, starting from early 2023:
• Vodafone is starting its switch-off in early 2023
• EE plans to start its switch-off in early 2024
• Three expects to switch off by the end of 2024
• Virgin Media (VM)-O2 has not yet announced its planned 3G switch-off date.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
3G switch off is a well trodden path and all over the online media.
Of course the companies that piggyback on the back of the above will also be impacted the virtual suppliers will also have to end their 3G services in line with their parent network - who knows what they are doing to contact their customers.
Most 3G phones and services will revert to 2G after 3G has switched off (apart from Three who never ran a 2G service)
2G switch off is a very different proposition as so many other services services use it. EE have said their 2G will go before 2030, VM02 and Vodafone have not announced their plans yet. But there is an agreement not to offer 2G services beyond 2033
this was written by Ofcom in Feb 2023 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/252592/3G-and-2G-switch-off.pdf
What retailers tell their customers in another thing. Interestingly i nipped into the local EE shop for a free SIM, and asked about a simple phone, and without prompting they advised of 3G switch off. Clearly online retailers might be different.
- EE will start in Jan 24 and be complete in Jan 24 (it is contacting account holders and offering a free 4G phone)
- O2 will start in 2025 and aims to be complete by end of 24 (it is also contacting account holders)
- Vodafone is already switching off and hopes to be complete in Jan 24 -
- Three will compete their 3G switchoff by the end of 2024
Of course the companies that piggyback on the back of the above will also be impacted the virtual suppliers will also have to end their 3G services in line with their parent network - who knows what they are doing to contact their customers.
Most 3G phones and services will revert to 2G after 3G has switched off (apart from Three who never ran a 2G service)
2G switch off is a very different proposition as so many other services services use it. EE have said their 2G will go before 2030, VM02 and Vodafone have not announced their plans yet. But there is an agreement not to offer 2G services beyond 2033
this was written by Ofcom in Feb 2023 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/252592/3G-and-2G-switch-off.pdf
What retailers tell their customers in another thing. Interestingly i nipped into the local EE shop for a free SIM, and asked about a simple phone, and without prompting they advised of 3G switch off. Clearly online retailers might be different.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
my mother has had a call from EE, and will upgrade. she is happy as she can WhatsApp without using Dads phone
gez
pfm Member
To add to gintronics point about virtual mobile operators, here's the list of the operators and which actual network they use.
Eoin
pfm Member
Jim I suspect the ‘2G will end.. someday…’ is possibly because of the battle between the ton of 2G IOT stuff that’s now kicking about vs network companies wanting to pull the 2G equip out and skip it all. Huge amounts of stuff has 2G sims built in.
A battle which will be fought over time over the next 10 years between various interested parties. Last thing the government wants is another massive battle over replacing smart energy meters have more of less got the ball over the line to get most houses fitted up.
It should be OK for a while.
In the mean time if things change, Nokia will likely release a basic buttons phone that works with whatever we have.
Definitely well worthwhile firing the phone up for the odd call to keep the sim alive, and essential for those on a PAYG sim.
Don’t know it you use BT, but if so they can provide a basic sim for about £5 a month. Or stick with a PAYG and keep it alive with a short call every month.
I’m surprised the old Nokia is still giving good service on 2G but if it’s working, it’s working.
One minor thing, I had to make a 999 call several months ago (incident on a motorway) and of course one of the first battles is to get the operator to understand your location. Well how I’m not sure, but the police were able to see my precise location as I was making the call. Whether that’s a cell tower function or an Apple phone function I don’t know. Worth a google to see how that works!
All the best
A battle which will be fought over time over the next 10 years between various interested parties. Last thing the government wants is another massive battle over replacing smart energy meters have more of less got the ball over the line to get most houses fitted up.
It should be OK for a while.
In the mean time if things change, Nokia will likely release a basic buttons phone that works with whatever we have.
Definitely well worthwhile firing the phone up for the odd call to keep the sim alive, and essential for those on a PAYG sim.
Don’t know it you use BT, but if so they can provide a basic sim for about £5 a month. Or stick with a PAYG and keep it alive with a short call every month.
I’m surprised the old Nokia is still giving good service on 2G but if it’s working, it’s working.
One minor thing, I had to make a 999 call several months ago (incident on a motorway) and of course one of the first battles is to get the operator to understand your location. Well how I’m not sure, but the police were able to see my precise location as I was making the call. Whether that’s a cell tower function or an Apple phone function I don’t know. Worth a google to see how that works!
All the best
gez
pfm Member
Mobile Cell triangulation. The network company can provide the police with the location because each cell phone is nearly always within radio range of 3 mobile cell towers, the relative strength (and I believe timing) of the received signal from the phone at each tower can allow the phone to be located (within a margin of error at least).
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I suspect a lot of the issue with retailers failing to advise is because most of them think in terms of a 3 year (or thereabouts) service life, so they expect punters to be upgrading whatever they buy now, well before this becomes a problem. That’s myopia and ineptitude (lack of product training) on the part of retailers rather than wilful conning, imho.
A bigger issue for me with 3G switch off, is that my provider (O2 backbone) doesn’t have great 4G coverage along great swathes of the West Coast mainline between Manchester and London. I see this because my phone reverts to 3G for significant chunks of the trip. My iPhone XS doesn’t do 5G but is in all other respects just as good for my purposes as the day I got it, so this will push me towards replacing a phone which is still in perfect working order. That really grinds my gears, not least from an environmental perspective.
A bigger issue for me with 3G switch off, is that my provider (O2 backbone) doesn’t have great 4G coverage along great swathes of the West Coast mainline between Manchester and London. I see this because my phone reverts to 3G for significant chunks of the trip. My iPhone XS doesn’t do 5G but is in all other respects just as good for my purposes as the day I got it, so this will push me towards replacing a phone which is still in perfect working order. That really grinds my gears, not least from an environmental perspective.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I can’t help thinking that this concern only affects the tiny number of people who want: a cheap as chips phone that has no frills and will last 25 years, by which time 90% of fishes will have fallen off this mortal coil of mains cable after enjoying years of great access to all that the www has to offer them.
I’m not sure I’d run a business that spent any time or energy on that 0.001%.
I think I’ve a couple of suitable phones somewhere that I tried to get my late parents to use!
I’m not sure I’d run a business that spent any time or energy on that 0.001%.
I think I’ve a couple of suitable phones somewhere that I tried to get my late parents to use!
Know what you mean. I'll be gutted (seriously) when my Motorola V220 (2G apparently) becomes obsolete, a 'hand me down' from over 15 years ago, with 'proper' buttons obvs, like this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28516912...pid=5338728743&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1
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Set up groups so he can send cr*p to one and important stuff to another, each group can then have a different notification tone, or none.
We run five for work.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
Vodafone reporting it has completed its 3G switch off
Vodafone successfully switches off 3G in UK, boosting 4G and 5G
The last remaining 3G radio frequencies will be repurposed to strengthen Vodafone's 4G and 5G services in the UK.
www.vodafone.co.uk
