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Is a Supercap overkill on a Snaxo?

scottcarpenter

scottcarpenter

pfm Member
I have been contemplating replacing my Hicap that powers my Snaxo 3.6.2 with a Supercap. The Hicap is freshly serviced and already does a great job.

My system compromises of a high spec LP12 front end, a NAC52/Supercap into a Hicap/Snaxo 3.6.2 and 3 x Avondale NCC200 NAP250s powering active DBLs.

Has anybody else made this upgrade and was it significant and thus really worthwhile (considering the expense of another Supercap)?

An ex-Naim engineer once suggested to me that using a Supercap on a Snaxo was "overkill" yet I would be interested to hear about other's experiences and thoughts.
 
Scottcarpenter,

No question in my view. Get a supercap. Not only is it a better power supply but you get the benefit of using a burndy instead of a snaic.

But it will make a very big difference and improve things across the board. Its a pity we are in opposite parts of the globe because it would be fun to hear each others rigs. I have a top spec LP12 into a 52, supercap snaxo 362, into Linn Isobariks via three olive 250s. I started active life with an olive snaxo 3.6 with a HiCap. The move to supercap made me gulp because of the cost but I have not regretted it. Then I bit the bullet and got the snaxo 362 which was another great move - a lot better than the olive snaxo.

Since you have the 362 a supercap would be the perfect partner in my opinion. If you're not fussed about mixing olive and black just find yourself an olive one. (Olives come in both green and black of course - all Naim stuff is olive on that basis!).

One word of warning. I don't think its a good idea to get the new DR supercap for the snaxo. Because the snaxo is "down the chain" from the pre-amp you would be better off with a DR cap on the 52 and a nonDR cap on the snaxo. That's what I have found anyway. If you have a non DR cap on your 52 you defo want a non DR cap for the snaxo. If you end up getting a new DR supercap that's fine as long as you put it on the pre-amp.

Enjoy!

Regards
David
 
I'd look towards DR level *caps first (if your's isn't) include the alternatives from Avondale, TPX &TPR4, and from Teddy ect.

Of course one of the benefits of Naim is its price stability, you won't loose much to try a Supercap.
 
Yes, definitely go for a Supercap. The SNAXO really benefits from a good power supply & going to a DR'd version was another step up. Also, despite what Naim tell you, if you're using the Burndy you can happily run something else off a DIN output.
 
Many thanks for your input chaps. Very helpful indeed.

I have actually been considering buying a Teddy Supercap for my 52 and putting my Naim Supercap on the Snaxo.

I am a big fan of Teddy power supplies and numerous people I have spoken to who own the TSC have said that it notably outperforms the Supercap DR. I have often thought that the Naim Supercap lacks the really deep bass that my DBLs are so superb at delivering. I have a Dual Teddycap on my 82 in my second system and when I have tried it in my main rig the bass is deeper and more solid (although the 82 doesn't have the same grip and refinement of the 52).

It is indeed a shame David that we are on other sides of the planet as I would love to hear your setup. Are your 250s standard and have you ever heard what they can do with NCC200 boards fitted? It's an absolute revelation.
 
I'm afraid I am boring - all my stuff is standard. I don't understand electronics and am wary of things I don't understand. And I don't know anyone with the sort of set up we share so no chance to hear tailored amps.

No matter, my foot taps when I hear my music. Best of luck with a new cap. The "cap will fit" as they say.
 
mrclick said:
I'm afraid I am boring - all my stuff is standard. I don't understand electronics and am wary of things I don't understand. And I don't know anyone with the sort of set up we share so no chance to hear tailored amps.

No matter, my foot taps when I hear my music. Best of luck with a new cap. The "cap will fit" as they say.
Click to expand...

The NCC200 boards are a simple drop in replacement board designed by Avondale Audio that gives the amp an incredible fluidity whilst retaining all of the spirit and engagement of the original. Les described them as creating "liquid music"!

The standard NAP250 does sound very fine though :)

And, yes, I am sure the "cap will fit" very nicely!
 
scottcarpenter said:
Many thanks for your input chaps. Very helpful indeed.

I have actually been considering buying a Teddy Supercap for my 52 and putting my Naim Supercap on the Snaxo.

I am a big fan of Teddy power supplies and numerous people I have spoken to who own the TSC have said that it notably outperforms the Supercap DR. I have often thought that the Naim Supercap lacks the really deep bass that my DBLs are so superb at delivering. I have a Dual Teddycap on my 82 in my second system and when I have tried it in my main rig the bass is deeper and more solid (although the 82 doesn't have the same grip and refinement of the 52).

It is indeed a shame David that we are on other sides of the planet as I would love to hear your setup. Are your 250s standard and have you ever heard what they can do with NCC200 boards fitted? It's an absolute revelation.
Click to expand...

I've got a DIY "SuperTeddycap" using Teddy's excellent STRs (Super teddy Regulators) and very good it is too. However, on the couple of times I've tried it on my SNAXO it's certainly sounded good but it changes the character of the sound and I prefer the Supercap. My DBLs give plenty of deep bass so if yours seem a bit lightweight(!) I'd look elsewhere for the cure.

The NCC200 boards are very good indeed, I use them in my dual-mono "Voyager" build. Beautifully made and of course you've got Les on the end of the phone to help and advise should you wish to try a couple.
 
Suffolk Tony said:
I've got a DIY "SuperTeddycap" using Teddy's excellent STRs (Super teddy Regulators) and very good it is too. However, on the couple of times I've tried it on my SNAXO it's certainly sounded good but it changes the character of the sound and I prefer the Supercap. My DBLs give plenty of deep bass so if yours seem a bit lightweight(!) I'd look elsewhere for the cure.

The NCC200 boards are very good indeed, I use them in my dual-mono "Voyager" build. Beautifully made and of course you've got Les on the end of the phone to help and advise should you wish to try a couple.
Click to expand...

Good God NO my DBLs don't sound lightweight! They have an incredible presence and a fantastic bass sound. In fact they can make the windows downstairs shake if you turn them up!

I was simply pointing out that the Teddy power supplies seem to provide a deeper, lower, more resonant bass sound that has more presence and I suspect that this is due to the Super Teddy Regs which Teddy himself says are several steps on from the regs used by Naim in their DR range.
 
scottcarpenter said:
Many thanks for your input chaps. Very helpful indeed.

I have actually been considering buying a Teddy Supercap for my 52 and putting my Naim Supercap on the Snaxo.

I am a big fan of Teddy power supplies and numerous people I have spoken to who own the TSC have said that it notably outperforms the Supercap DR. I have often thought that the Naim Supercap lacks the really deep bass that my DBLs are so superb at delivering. I have a Dual Teddycap on my 82 in my second system and when I have tried it in my main rig the bass is deeper and more solid (although the 82 doesn't have the same grip and refinement of the 52).

It is indeed a shame David that we are on other sides of the planet as I would love to hear your setup. Are your 250s standard and have you ever heard what they can do with NCC200 boards fitted? It's an absolute revelation.
Click to expand...

I actually preferred Les modified NAP 250 boards in my power amp over NCC200's - I felt they did loose some of that Naim sound.
 
scottcarpenter said:
Good God NO my DBLs don't sound lightweight! They have an incredible presence and a fantastic bass sound. In fact they can make the windows downstairs shake if you turn them up!

I was simply pointing out that the Teddy power supplies seem to provide a deeper, lower, more resonant bass sound that has more presence and I suspect that this is due to the Super Teddy Regs which Teddy himself says are several steps on from the regs used by Naim in their DR range.
Click to expand...
Sorry Scott, that was meant as a bit of a joke. Lightweight DBLs - an oxymoron!
 
A supercapped SNAXO ought to sound a bit more dynamic and refined than from a hicap. Add one of our Burndy cables and improve it even further. Then you can Add Les's TPR4s to the Supercap to give a DR version a run for its money.
 
I've actually got both and a bog standard kendeil HC or two and have tried them all out on my Snaxo 3-6.

Findings as follows:-

Boggo HC and TPR4 one actually disappointingly similar and neither as good as SC.

Conclusion - the magic is more in the number of independent regs rather than the quality of them.

SC is the way to go and definitely worth it.
 
MJS said:
A supercapped SNAXO ought to sound a bit more dynamic and refined than from a hicap. Add one of our Burndy cables and improve it even further. Then you can Add Les's TPR4s to the Supercap to give a DR version a run for its money.
Click to expand...

How much do you charge to supply and fit the TPR4s Mark?

It's an avenue I have very seriously considered.
 
colasblue said:
I've actually got both and a bog standard kendeil HC or two and have tried them all out on my Snaxo 3-6.

Findings as follows:-

Boggo HC and TPR4 one actually disappointingly similar and neither as good as SC.

Conclusion - the magic is more in the number of independent regs rather than the quality of them.

SC is the way to go and definitely worth it.
Click to expand...

Your experience seems to at odds with many users of the TPR4s as I've yet to have one smidgeon of adverse feedback from any user.
Perhaps you chose to live with it & didn't care to activate my well known money back guarantee (for reasons best guessed at I'd suggest).

Anyway, to the question the OP asked: If Naimee advice is anything to go by, just buy a S/Cap as before long, you'll be moving it on for
something less agricultural and more suited to long term listening pleasure.

Here's a mail I received this week which needs no further words from me:

"Thank you for the speedy dispatch of the upgrade kit I ordered, it was on the door step when I got in from work yesterday.

Like a kid with a new toy my two Hicaps were in pieces and the upgrade was carried out without a hiccup, great instruction installation
package.

Had a brief listen for 20 mins last night and was pleasantly surprised in the sound when running from cold;The wife had just gone to bed
so that put the mockers on a really good listening session.

Managed half a day at work, the temptation was too great, had to get home and have a serious listening session; I didn't know it but I
was in for a treat.

Les you must be some sort of magician, I couldn't believe what my ears were hearing, for changing some caps and a regulator, how does
it make such a transformation in the sound.It was like a veil had been lifted, the bass was tighter and had greater punch to it, the percussion
was cleaner with greater timbre, I didn't think the difference would have been that great: How wrong was I!!
Well the system has been playing for about 3 hours and the sound keeps on improving, I'm hearing information previously unheard before.
I'm impressed, very impressed."

The only problem now is the dilemma I'm left with, if my system sounds this good, and its not at the top of the Naim ladder, it's no slouch either,
what is hi-fi nirvana, and where do I go from here?
 
Les,

You suffer from immense paranoia sir.

I'm actually completely happy with my TPR4 HC in it's normal position in my system which is running a pair of Naim M/C boards, and satisfied that when doing that job it blows away a standard Kendeiled HC.

Sorry if it can't quite measure up to a real SC when running a Snaxo 3-6 but it can't! If it could I'd have immediately ordered another TPR4 and converted one of the other HC's I have lying around, sold the SC and pocketed a few quid!

Whether a fully TPR'd SC could beat a standard one, well I'd be surprised if it couldn't but at about £900 to find out I'd be more inclined to scratch build a compatible PSU with just TPR boards a traffo and a box and sell the SC. Maybe that's one for the future.
 
I have just installed a TPR4 into my tiny snaps
& put it in place of the HC feeding the snaxo to my Isobarics.

My findings were similar to Colasblue: a bit better and more refined, but not a world of a difference.

Then I put the upgraded snaps to the 82,
now replacing TWO HiCaps there.

The TPR4 snaps killed both HiCaps hands down, it's a different league now simply.

I would like to order 2 more TPR4 for the HiCaps, Les.
Sent you email, maybe you can look it up I got no response as of yet.
(I have a mail prob, can receive but not send due to a Mozilla prob I must solve, so excuse I try to place a reminder this way.)

For correctness, I have to say my snaxo is not a 3-6 & cannot be supercapped,
so accept only 1 HiCap.
By my own listening experience from what the upgraded snaps did, got me convinced that a TPR4 solution will probably beat any naim solution if implemented right and in the same way.

I haven't compared to a SC, and thus cannot compare directly,
but I regard the TPRs the superior technology & thus expect them to follow my theory.
The second point being, I am completely unwilling to drop money anywhere near a SC.
 
By coincidence, I have recently acquired a SNAXO 2-4 SBL, to replace a NAXO 2-4 SBL, and while the changeover was taking place I tried the combinations below: the power amps are a 250 on the trebles and a Meridian 103D on the mids of my SBLs

i) 102 + Supercap -> NAXO + Hicap

ii) 102 + Supercap -> SNAXO + Hicap

iii) 102 + Hicap -> SNAXO + Supercap (burndy)

I felt that the final combination was the best, and so it has remained.
 
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