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Ireland

Bart said:
Must be some great music there if you know where to look, Uillean pipes, flute, fiddle, bodhran (and guitar of course), if my Chieftans and Planxty records are anything to go by. Unfortunately I never found it on my visit to Dublin, did get treated to Mr Brightside in The Temple Bar area by a busker though so mustn’t grumble!
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This is the thing, the shpiel from the likes Bord Failte goes that pubs in Ireland are all about people in Arran knitwear, drinking Guinness, playing/tapping their foot along to fiddles and tin whistles, having the craic. By and large, that's baloney. Even if you go to places where the shtick is laid on with a trowel eg Dingle town/peninsula, its not like that, especially outside the (short) tourist season.
 
Bart said:
Must be some great music there if you know where to look, Uillean pipes, flute, fiddle, bodhran (and guitar of course), if my Chieftans and Planxty records are anything to go by. Unfortunately I never found it on my visit to Dublin, did get treated to Mr Brightside in The Temple Bar area by a busker though so mustn’t grumble!
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You'll find some great 'sessions' in various pubs throughout the country, more often than not as a tourist attraction but they do take place in ordinary bars off the beaten track but you do need to know where to look.
 
Been married to an Irish lady for over 20 years now and we were regular visitors to her parents until they died a few years ago. Sadly, not only were they the only teetotal family in Ireland, but they lived just outside Athlone which is.............well, let's just say it's not one of Ireland's high points except as a base if you're a keen golfer!

I loved visiting the country and the people are truly lovely, but I'm not sure I could live there as it's just a bit too laid-back at times. Even Mrs. B says she wouldn't want to go back.

They have done very well out of the EU. When I started visiting in the early 2000s, the journey from Dublin Airport to Athlone was along their equivalent of A-roads and was very picturesque but could take 3 hours on a bad day. Now it's about an hour and 20 minutes on beautiful, new and largely empty motorways.

And thanks to extensive research, my personal opinion is that Guinness is definitely still the best stout-type drink, but I never drink it outside Ireland, because it's just not the same elsewhere.
 
Hard to separate the pride and love of your country with the anger at how it is making life impossible for many under 35 not only to buy property but even to rent. My son who is now in Manchester for over a year far prefers it to Dublin. My daughter lives in Brussels renting an apartment there for €950 that would cost €2000 in Dublin.

We have visited my cousins in Scunthorpe for many years and have seen many Irish towns turn into versions of it with many indigenous shops being taken over by UK chains. The West of Ireland has mainly bunked this trend and so does have a certain earthy historic feel about it.

It’s far from the Banana Republic the Boomtown Rats sang about and I usually agree, when I get back to its shores from holidays, with the second last line - it’s great to see the place again -

Unfortunately it’s in a very dangerous place socially where there is a growing rift between those who own property and those that have little hope of owning yet pay huge rents.

Better than the rest of the British Isles? Well yes, but what else would I say?

.sjb
 
Sloop John B said:
Unfortunately it’s in a very dangerous place socially where there is a growing rift between those who own property and those that have little hope of owning yet pay huge rents.
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Fear not, next election, Mary Lou will fix that for you - or so she says...
 
@Sloop John B yes, the inability to find a place to live is the biggest crisis facing Ireland at present. And like a lot of crises, it's something that took a long time to arrive and will take a long time to fix.

@Beobloke Athlone is also a nice spot if you like boats, but yes, I agree: It's the most centrally located town in a country where all the cities are on the coast.
 
tones said:
Fear not, next election, Mary Lou will fix that for you - or so she says...
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Although I never thought of SF as a party I would ever vote for and indeed the greens will always get my number one, I think that if the next general elections outcome was the return of FG/FF that it would not be good for the country at all. whether SF can or can’t do a better job with housing, I think a change is necessary just to give some hope and validation to ”the dispossessed’s” concerns.

It would be a very dangerous outcome for the general election if the “I’m All Right Jacks” appeared to win.

.sjb
 
Sloop John B said:
Although I never thought of SF as a party I would ever vote for and indeed the greens will always get my number one, I think that if the next general elections outcome was the return of FG/FF that it would not be good for the country at all. whether SF can or can’t do a better job with housing, I think a change is necessary just to give some hope and validation to ”the dispossessed’s” concerns.

It would be a very dangerous outcome for the general election if the “I’m All Right Jacks” appeared to win.

.sjb
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If I recall correctly, the only time the Shinners were in power was a brief period between the Easter Rising and Partition. So, for over a century, they've had no experience in running anything, except possibly guns. Indeed, Michelle O'Neill is the first Shinner in power, albeit under the peculiar constricted Northern circumstances. While I see what you're saying about FG/FF, I wonder whether letting a collection of complete amateurs loose in government would be such a good idea. One of their very ambitious goals from their website is

A Sinn Féin-led government will deliver the biggest affordable and social housing build in the history of the state.

The thing that bothers me is the fact that SF's raison d'être is Irish reunification, and I wonder whether, in government, they would pursue policies purely with this in mind, possibly to the detriment of the South. To me, they smack a wee bit too much of "if I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of spring". (I speak as a Northern Prod who favours Irish reunification).
 
Sloop John B said:
Hard to separate the pride and love of your country with the anger at how it is making life impossible for many under 35 not only to buy property but even to rent.
Unfortunately it’s in a very dangerous place socially where there is a growing rift between those who own property and those that have little hope of owning yet pay huge rents.



.sjb
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KrisW said:
@Sloop John B yes, the inability to find a place to live is the biggest crisis facing Ireland at present. And like a lot of crises, it's something that took a long time to arrive and will take a long time to fix.
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Sorry to contradict again but the housing situation isn't as current as is made out and the rift between those with freeholds, secure tenancies and those without is nothing new either. It wasn't just the lack of work that forced previous rounds of emigration, it was lack of accommodation too,. Four to a bed was the norm in my parents house and , on visits, ruins the size of a shed would be pointed out where three generation families in double figures would eke out an existence on half an acre. The so called 'fairy forts', circular indentations on the land covered in scrub, were in fact often turf/thatch hovels on a stone plinth that were pulled down by land agents to stop tenants who couldn't afford their rent from reoccuppying (especially in the aftermath of the famine). Folklore in the service of sanitising social history. Up until the 40s and 50s, homeless/poor young men could be hired as labourers by relatively wealthy farmers at the local fair for a year and a day for a pittance,if that, and lodgings. It goes on and on.

There is a nasty historic underbelly to the schmaltzy feelgood stuff that is perpetuated. If you want the real horror stuff that went on, though, you need to be able to tap into some of the oral history stuff that tends to be perpetuated down the female line for reasons that would become apparent if I scratched the surface here. Like the song goes 'Don't believe the hype'.
Ly
 
KrisW said:
@les24preludes We're a friendly people, but can be reluctant to form friendships. If it's any consolation, even Irish people find it hard to break in to a new social circle if they move somewhere else. We are gregarious and helpful to strangers, but getting closer than that requires a surprising amount of work. I don't know if there is one in your son's case, but a language barrier makes it harder, as the way we use English can be confusing to non-native speakers - or native speakers too! I've seen American co-workers getting thrown by things that we think have an obvious, clear meaning.
I've been on the other side of this, by the way, so I do understand: as an immigrant in another country, I found I had more in common with other foreigners, as we had a shared experience of being baffled by the native population.
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My son identifies as very "European" - his mother is European, not British though she now has UK residence. His first language is English plus he speaks some Spanish since his wife is from Chile and they are in a house-share with other Spanish speakers. It's not that the Irish are socially shy, it's more that he finds their personalities further removed from his than many of his fellow Europeans. His close friends are from diverse countries - he's always had an affinity for diversity. The Irish have a very distinct and special history which has shaped them, together with a strong Catholic faith. They can seem "different" from many continental Europeans in personality - maybe also from being on the fringe of Europe on the Atlantic coast. I'm Welsh and I find it easier to understand the French than the Irish, though we are both Celts.

I lived in Norway for 6 years and i do agree that it's often easier to make close friends from the emigre population. My closest friend there was from Argentina. Ironic, because we were both on a gig together when the Falklands war broke out, me on bass, he on drums. When i arrived with my bass I was met by a ceremonial drum roll and a cymbal crash, following which he announced "Andy! We are officially at war!" We laughed and proceeded with setting up. That's life......
 
There's plenty of 'teetotal' families in Ireland @Beobloke Presbyterians and the like in the North and 'Pioneer's' elsewhere....Athlone's maybe not the best place if you're looking for the 'Irish experience'. I'd recommend the West coast from top to bottom.
'Running guns' made me LOL @tones
@Sloop John B I've a good mate who works in computer programming, earns a great salary, though originally a Cork man he now works and lives in Dublin, he paid over €400k for his little house, it seems that Dublin in particular has gotten crazy house pricing and that housing and immigration are the two biggest political discussions at present.
 
molee said:
Sorry to contradict again but the housing situation isn't as current as is made out and the rift between those with freeholds, secure tenancies and those without is nothing new either. It wasn't just the lack of work that forced previous rounds of emigration, it was lack of accommodation too,. Four to a bed was the norm in my parents house and , on visits, ruins the size of a shed would be pointed out where three generation families in double figures would eke out an existence on half an acre. The so called 'fairy forts', circular indentations on the land covered in scrub, were in fact often turf/thatch hovels on a stone plinth that were pulled down by land agents to stop tenants who couldn't afford their rent from reoccuppying (especially in the aftermath of the famine). Folklore in the service of sanitising social history. Up until the 40s and 50s, homeless/poor young men could be hired as labourers by relatively wealthy farmers at the local fair for a year and a day for a pittance,if that, and lodgings. It goes on and on.

There is a nasty historic underbelly to the schmaltzy feelgood stuff that is perpetuated. If you want the real horror stuff that went on, though, you need to be able to tap into some of the oral history stuff that tends to be perpetuated down the female line for reasons that would become apparent if I scratched the surface here. Like the song goes 'Don't believe the hype'.
Ly
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In 1991 at peak home ownership just under 4 in every 5 of the population owned their own homes.
tones said:
If I recall correctly, the only time the Shinners were in power was a brief period between the Easter Rising and Partition. So, for over a century, they've had no experience in running anything, except possibly guns. Indeed, Michelle O'Neill is the first Shinner in power, albeit under the peculiar constricted Northern circumstances. While I see what you're saying about FG/FF, I wonder whether letting a collection of complete amateurs loose in government would be such a good idea. One of their very ambitious goals from their website is

A Sinn Féin-led government will deliver the biggest affordable and social housing build in the history of the state.

The thing that bothers me is the fact that SF's raison d'être is Irish reunification, and I wonder whether, in government, they would pursue policies purely with this in mind, possibly to the detriment of the South. To me, they smack a wee bit too much of "if I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of spring". (I speak as a Northern Prod who favours Irish reunification).
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Indeed there is a risk with SF in power but I think the bigger risk would be the status quo.

I was extremely surprised at my son’s vitriol when he spat out Leo Varadkar’s name saying how he felt practically betrayed by current politicians and their policies – and he isn’t particularly political.

SF won’t be in government without the help of other parties. An SF/ Green/ Soc Dems/Labour rainbow wouldn’t be the worst outcome.

.sjb
 
I can't afford the food here. Third takeaway sandwich already, all of them have been between 6.50 and 8 euros. And I thought where I lived was expensive!
 
Sloop John B said:
In 1991 at peak home ownership just under 4 in every 5 of the population owned their own homes.



.sjb
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I trust you mean households or, at the outside, adults as opposed to the population in total but I take your point. 1991 is, however, a vanishingly brief snapshot within a timeframe in a post that you have replied to.
 
tones said:
If I recall correctly, the only time the Shinners were in power was a brief period between the Easter Rising and Partition. So, for over a century, they've had no experience in running anything, except possibly guns. Indeed, Michelle O'Neill is the first Shinner in power, albeit under the peculiar constricted Northern circumstances. While I see what you're saying about FG/FF, I wonder whether letting a collection of complete amateurs loose in government would be such a good idea. One of their very ambitious goals from their website is

A Sinn Féin-led government will deliver the biggest affordable and social housing build in the history of the state.

The thing that bothers me is the fact that SF's raison d'être is Irish reunification, and I wonder whether, in government, they would pursue policies purely with this in mind, possibly to the detriment of the South. To me, they smack a wee bit too much of "if I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of spring". (I speak as a Northern Prod who favours Irish reunification).
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:D Is it that clear from the Swiss Alps? There are so many reasons for the current predicament. Some down to various governments and a lot down to the huge surge in population. We are virtually at full employment. The current coalition have been incredibly generous with social supports throughout society, run a large budget surplus but the other side can cry foul and urge them to give even more and suggest they have failed. I think we are in for a recession at some point in the next 3-4 years. SF will I feel definitely get in and I am very curious to see how they are going to magic up more houses for all at an affordable price. A lot of their supporters want houses for nothing and want the person behind the tree to pay. It will all end in tears.

People ignore the fact that a lot of the current younger generation want everything now. A lot go off and see the world. This was never available in my time. If I had taken that option I would have been frozen out of the housing market also. No gain without pain or sacrifice.
 
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