'hiend' mains cable for Naim XPS: does it make sense ?

[whatsnext]

im breaking into the local substation, with a tin of brasso and some insert mains lead brand here wire to make improvements

Be careful with them volts and amps around.

If I read some posts correctly the advocates believe it is mainly the last meter of so that makes the difference.

 

[whatsnext]

running 1 minute miles is physically impossible, please deal in facts

Don't know if I'd be happy with you in the house, but I'm sure a neutral venue could be arranged.

Good to see you find facts of value.

I have done my evaluation of mains cables enthused (reviewed/raved/recommended) about by some. 2 years should have been long enough for them to burn in. I am putting kettle leads back in their place and choosing the time to sell. Like all true subjectivists I am trusting my ears in this matter and only interested in my system.

I wasn't looking for an invitation to anyones home and would decline if offered. It is unwise to share space with members of other tribes without a neutral person to witness the event. All sorts of unsubstantiated accusations could be made.

 

[sbgk]

Good to see you find facts of value.

I have done my evaluation of mains cables enthused (reviewed/raved/recommended) about by some. 2 years should have been long enough for them to burn in. I am putting kettle leads back in their place and choosing the time to sell. Like all true subjectivists I am trusting my ears in this matter and only interested in my system.

I wasn't looking for an invitation to anyones home and would decline if offered. It is unwise to share space with members of other tribes without a neutral person to witness the event. All sorts of unsubstantiated accusations could be made.

That's ok, I've had to move into a cardboard box after I couldn't resist buying ever more expensive cables from the evil cable suppliers. Once they knew I had golden ears they wouldn't stop pestering me, even phoning up in the middle of the night and whispering rfi down the phone. If only someone had warned me.

Has anyone else been scammed like this ? I keep looking in the forums, but no one dares complain.

 

[Joe P]

whatsnext,

Even when the poster has apparently choosen a deliberately provokative rehetorical question including derogatory coments on Arkless trade activity? This has been sanitised away leaving Jezz as the evil member attacking a sweet innocent poster. Thankfully the sanitisation did not take account of quotes of the offensive provocation. I have saved this lest further sanitisation takes place.

All the moderators here have jobs, families and lives outside the forum, and none can be arsed to read every single post in every single thread to ensure that comments are not breaching the forum's AUP.

Yesterday, when I happened to be taking a break from work and had popped on the site, I saw a comment that I deemed needed moderation. If previous comments by other posters had led to this little kerfuffle but I had neglected to delete those — well, that that's life.

The assumption is that posters here are adults and are not keeping a little score sheet that, say, three offending posts from poster A were deleted when only two from poster B were. That you're saving posts — lest further sanitization takes places — suggests you have a greater interest in fanning flames than in audio discussion.

Joe

 

[formbypc]

Even when the poster has apparently chosen a deliberately provocative rehetorical question including derogatory coments on Arkless trade activity?

It wasn't a 'deliberately provocative' question. It was rhetorical, though.

The question itself, which was all that Arkless responded to, didn't include derogatory comment.

 

[MVV]

One, two, three, four


What's for tea, Mum?


What's for tea, darling?


Darling, I said, "What's for tea?"


What's for tea, daughter?


Hiendz baked beans

 

[Brian]

Nice to see a member with only 15 posts start a thread. I wonder if he'll ever start another...

The mistake he made was in asking for subjective opinion, resulting in the thread being crapped on by the usual pseudo-scientits, some of whom it amusingly seems have previously wasted hundreds of £££ before they saw the light and who now devote their time attempting to save others from treading the same path.

Nobody likes a reformed smoker.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

There seems to be two possible scenarios here...

One is that the past couple of hundred years of scientific innovation in physics and electronics has failed to detect a new property in... well, wire, and that in spite of this a small subset of an already fairly small group known as audiophiles has actually discovered this hitherto unknown property, even though most of them admit "I know nothing about electronics but...". This is all the more amazing a feat of discovery when we stop to consider that this has alluded the greatest scientific minds in history, and over a hundred years of Nobel Laureates. If this wasn't incredible enough.... It seems that NASA, ESA, Sony, Philips, Toshiba, Mcdonnell Douglas, Texas Instruments, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, and Harvard have all been blind to this amazing discovery....

The other scenario is that having been persuaded by vested interests including cable manufacturers and Hi-Fi dealers to try these new wonder cables, audiophiles have handed over an often not insubstantial amount of money for their new toy and rushed home to try it.... Now having paid so much money for this wonder cable and having taken in the sage words of their hi-fi dealer they are obviously all fired up over their new toy and want to give it a good try.. It's an excuse to turn it up a bit louder than normal of course as they are "testing" their new purchase... Having built up their hopes and expectations over this remarkable product, and especially as they've turned the wick up a bit of course it sounds like a real improvement.. as anything change would if the volume is increased even a small amount and especially if one is primed to hear an improvement.... Now of course there is no improvement. It was all in the mind and helped by a bit more temporary volume... but having "heard" (imagined) the improvement and having spent the money there's no going back now...

Which of these scenarios sounds more likely to you dear reader....

 

[herb]

There seems to be two possible scenarios here...

One is that the past couple of hundred years of scientific innovation in physics and electronics has failed to detect a new property in... well, wire, and that in spite of this a small subset of an already fairly small group known as audiophiles has actually discovered this hitherto unknown property, even though most of them admit "I know nothing about electronics but...". This is all the more amazing a feat of discovery when we stop to consider that this has alluded the greatest scientific minds in history, and over a hundred years of Nobel Laureates. If this wasn't incredible enough.... It seems that NASA, ESA, Sony, Philips, Toshiba, Mcdonnell Douglas, Texas Instruments, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, and Harvard have all been blind to this amazing discovery....

The other scenario is that having been persuaded by vested interests including cable manufacturers and Hi-Fi dealers to try these new wonder cables, audiophiles have handed over an often not insubstantial amount of money for their new toy and rushed home to try it.... Now having paid so much money for this wonder cable and having taken in the sage words of their hi-fi dealer they are obviously all fired up over their new toy and want to give it a good try.. It's an excuse to turn it up a bit louder than normal of course as they are "testing" their new purchase... Having built up their hopes and expectations over this remarkable product, and especially as they've turned the wick up a bit of course it sounds like a real improvement.. as anything change would if the volume is increased even a small amount and especially if one is primed to hear an improvement.... Now of course there is no improvement. It was all in the mind and helped by a bit more temporary volume... but having "heard" (imagined) the improvement and having spent the money there's no going back now...

Which of these scenarios sounds more likely to you dear reader....

There are many scenarios Jez, not just these two. This does seem to be your personal hobby-horse/problem though.

For some reason I keep thinking of the games we played long ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

I don't know if they are still relevant today. Are you OK?

 

[Arkless Electronics]

There are many scenarios Jez, not just these two. This does seem to be your personal hobby-horse/problem though.

For some reason I keep thinking of the games we played long ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

I don't know if they are still relevant today. Are you OK?

No I disagree. These are the only scenarios I can see. Hobby horse probably problem no... As to the rest of your post I have no idea what you are talking about!

 

[Craig B]

Are you a Mainsophile?

Do you believe that the last 1.2m of copper mains cable between the electricity board's nearest power generation station and your precious bit of hi-fi kit makes a jot of difference to the actual, as opposed to the percieved, performance of same?

If you believe so then you be a mainsophile, and are doomed to voluntary damnation, perpetually laying your gold at the feet of the snake-headed monster that is the cable nervosa marketeers until the end of pace, rhythm and timing (or, at least until such time as your hearing packs it in).

May he who you perceive to be your maker have mercy on your soul, for you won't find any solace here in armchair expert land.

Amen.

 

[sbgk]

Are you a Mainsophile?

Do you believe that the last 1.2m of copper mains cable between the electricity board's nearest power generation station and your precious bit of hi-fi kit makes a jot of difference to the actual, as opposed to the percieved, performance of same?

If you believe so then you be a mainsophile, and are doomed to voluntary damnation, perpetually laying your gold at the feet of the snake-headed monster that is the cable nervosa marketeers until the end of pace, rhythm and timing (or, at least until such time as your hearing packs it in).

May he who you perceive to be your maker have mercy on your soul, for you won't find any solace here in armchair expert land.

Amen.

my equipment sees the mains lead as the first 1.2m of cable.

there are two scenarios, are all the thousands of people that have bought/made and heard differences in mains cables simple minded imbeciles who can't be trusted to spend their own money without being duped by incredibly cunning sale tactics or is Arkless wrong ?

Rich cable suppliers/manufacturers sitting in their mansions want to know.

Of course, it wouldn't be the case that the manufacturers/suppliers on this site would be trying to dissuade people from tinkering with their own equipment, no vested interests/conflict of interest there, oh no.

 

[Purité Audio]

my equipment sees the mains lead as the first 1.2m of cable.

there are two scenarios, are all the thousands of people that have bought/made and heard differences in mains cables simple minded imbeciles who can't be trusted to spend their own money without being duped by incredibly cunning sale tactics or is Arkless wrong ?

Rich cable suppliers/manufacturers sitting in their mansions want to know.

Of course, it wouldn't be the case that the manufacturers/suppliers on this site would be trying to dissuade people from tinkering with their own equipment, no vested interests/conflict of interest there, oh no.

!
Keith.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

! indeed!.....I've taken sbgk off my ignore list after seeing Keiths' quote... well it has to be worth it for the entertainment value !

 

[Craig B]

my equipment sees the mains lead as the first 1.2m of cable.

Leaving aside your kits ability to 'see' for a moment, have you considered that it might simply be picking up on your own thought projections?

And what of the other 50-100 miles of transmission cable/connections/fuses etc.? Does your kit see their contribution as being null and void as long as that 1.2m closest link is mainsophile approved?

there are two scenarios, are all the thousands of people that have bought/made and heard differences in mains cables simple minded imbeciles who can't be trusted to spend their own money without being duped by incredibly cunning sale tactics or is Arkless wrong ?

I don't like the work imbecile, but I suspect Arkless to be one of the many hundreds of thousands more who have received an education in electrical (let alone electronics) science since before Edison first lit the streets with excited electrons.

Rich cable suppliers/manufacturers sitting in their mansions want to know.

I met a few of the richest ones early on at CES and they didn't give a toss about hi-fi - none of them actually made anything, nor could they be accused of knowing one end of a bit of drawn copper from another.

Of course, it wouldn't be the case that the manufacturers/suppliers on this site would be trying to dissuade people from tinkering with their own equipment, no vested interests/conflict of interest there, oh no.

I seriously doubt that a single one of them would care what mains cable anyone uses, that is, as long as the cable in question is CE approved, and, more importantly, doesn't come back to haunt them when Mr. DIY's house burns down.

 

[sq225917]

Jez can you think of any circumstances where a change in the impedance of the earth connection to say a preamp could have an audible influence?

I firmly believe mains cables shouldn't make a difference, but I also believe that they can, but only in cases where an uncorrected error state exists.

 

[NeilK]

sq - +1

 

[MVV]

my equipment sees the mains lead as the first 1.2m of cable.

there are two scenarios, are all the thousands of people that have bought/made and heard differences in mains cables simple minded imbeciles who can't be trusted to spend their own money without being duped by incredibly cunning sale tactics or is Arkless wrong ?

Rich cable suppliers/manufacturers sitting in their mansions want to know.

Of course, it wouldn't be the case that the manufacturers/suppliers on this site would be trying to dissuade people from tinkering with their own equipment, no vested interests/conflict of interest there, oh no



No one is saying anyone is a simple minded imbecile for hearing a difference in mains cables. I think they are superbly equipped human beings with all functions working exactly as they should.

However there is no evidence anywhere that supports the assertion that differences can be actually heard.

Where we agree is that you are absolutely right in reporting that you perceive a difference and so is Jez in pointing out that unless there is a fault there is no audible difference in the sound you hear.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Jez can you think of any circumstances where a change in the impedance of the earth connection to say a preamp could have an audible influence?

I firmly believe mains cables shouldn't make a difference, but I also believe that they can, but only in cases where an uncorrected error state exists.

If what you are getting at here is can a dodgy earth internally to a mains cable have an effect then I suppose it could yes.... but it would be difficult to say what exactly the effect would be as there are so many variables in the way different pieces of equipment are earthed to each other, which of those is itself connected to mains earth and which are double insulated etc. In the case of a completely broken earth then mains hum could reveal itself, again depending on all sorts of factors.