advertisement


Grammar Schools?

jackbarron said:
The school I went to was set up in 1553 by King Edward VI and Nicholas Ridley. It wasn't far from Fleet Street.

A proportion of the children were orphans, came from broken homes or had educational problems. They went for free, or got a grant.

The school is now in Surrey and costs paying pupils £33,000 a year to board with. To get in I had to pass the 11-plus, an exam to obtain a grant from the Greater London Council, a school test and an interview with the headmaster.
Click to expand...

It sounds very much like Christ's Hospital, which has very different rules re fees than any other public school:

https://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/admissions/fees/

'Christ’s Hospital is unique for a UK independent school in that it provides more bursarial support to its pupils than any other school in the independent boarding sector and has done for over 460 years. Bursaries are granted to 75% of students who receive between 5% and 100% assistance with their boarding fees according to their household income. If you apply for a bursary you will be assessed according to your means. Families on very low incomes may also be assisted with the cost of pocket money, House Funds, travel and sportswear. Our offers are subject to our normal entry criteria.'
 
merlin said:
In the old days, the very top eleven year olds got a scholarship to public school. Is that not an option anymore with the 11 Plus?
Click to expand...

Think you have to apply to the public school directly for scholarships and each school can differ. There is no national 11+, it only exists for selective or partially selective schools. Some run their own entry systems others team up. Where I live 7 of the 9 local schools are partially selective and have joined forces to share results and administration of the entry exam process.
 
merlin said:
In the old days, the very top eleven year olds got a scholarship to public school. Is that not an option anymore with the 11 Plus?
Click to expand...

There never was a national system of selection, so you must be talking about the county where you lived.
 
Disbeliever said:
Its total nonsense to say fate determined at 11 years old, I came from a poor family went to Grammar School left before 16. . However I was able to retire at 59 years of age and continue to enjoy my Hi-Fi Hobby. I agree that new Grammar Schools should be increased, it was crazy to stop then, but then all our Governments are totally incompetant, their sole expertise is how to waste tax payers money. No Civil servant, NHS manager, Useless Council Chief Executives should be paid more than the PM
Click to expand...

It's incompetent.
 
Joe Hutch said:
It sounds very much like Christ's Hospital, which has very different rules re fees than any other public school:

https://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/admissions/fees/

'Christ’s Hospital is unique for a UK independent school in that it provides more bursarial support to its pupils than any other school in the independent boarding sector and has done for over 460 years. Bursaries are granted to 75% of students who receive between 5% and 100% assistance with their boarding fees according to their household income. If you apply for a bursary you will be assessed according to your means. Families on very low incomes may also be assisted with the cost of pocket money, House Funds, travel and sportswear. Our offers are subject to our normal entry criteria.'
Click to expand...

Didn't got to Christ's Hospital, but we used to play them at football and other sports. I don't know the percentage of kids who got grants. It would be interesting to find out how it has changed.

I have only been inside the school once since 1970. There are a number of new buildings. It now takes day pupils as well as boarders and is raking in the money. There are quite a few wealthy families in Surrey who want to punt out their kids to a public school.

Jack
 
Joe Hutch said:
. Families on very low incomes may also be assisted with the cost of pocket money, House Funds, travel and sportswear. Our offers are subject to our normal entry criteria.'
Click to expand...

Are there data on the percentage of students from low income families at Christ's Hospital?

Stephen
 
I opened a letter which turned out to be for the long gone previous owners (18 years gone!)- from the local private school, asking for a donation.
A donation to help pay for the private education of other well off people's children outside the free provision of the state system. The perception of need seems to be a very flexible concept. I'm going to go down to the bottom of the drive and do some panhandling as the patents go past, "you couldn't help with £10 for a spot of lunch could you?"
 
stephen bennett said:
Are there data on the percentage of students from low income families at Christ's Hospital?

Stephen
Click to expand...

Not that I've been able to find; this Torygraph article from a few years back gives a rough idea:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...tal-exemplary-education-without-the-fees.html

'When Franklin started in 2007 three per cent of pupils were paying full fees, but only 'by accident', as their parents' financial situations had improved while they were at the school. The number of full-fee-payers has fluctuated over the years – in the 1980s there were about 15 per cent, all of whom had originally been on bursaries. But Franklin decided that to balance the books the school needed more fee-paying students coming in at the start, something that horrified some of the Old Blues (the school's alumni).

[...]

The full fee-payers, who will pay £27,000 this year (a small number of day pupils pay £17,505 per year), were introduced slowly and this year amount to 9.9 per cent, made up of British and international students. The average family income at the school increased from £17,394 last year to £27,620 this year, but still remains much lower than the national average of £40,000. 'Those that can afford to pay full fees and send their children to us do so because we're different and they like that difference,' Franklin said.'
 
I went to grammar school and a very good job it did for me helping me to achieve higher grades then I thought possible , there were also free place for above average students of low income family as you had to pay some fees at that time creating a fairly broad spectrum of pupils but they were selected on ability . My school is now private and doing very well but they still have a number of free place available per year .

the majority of state schools have improved a lot since my time at school so I cannot see the point of more grammar schools at this point in time as it is a political distraction when Brexit needs to sorted out
 
merlin said:
Wasn't the eleven plus compulsory once Bob?
Click to expand...

Yes it was
BUT
The pass mark varied from LEA to LEA depending on how many grammar schools the LEA had.
Also nearly all LEAs sent the rest to Secondary Moderns, a few LEAs offered technical schools.
Never forget also that when first set up Secondary Moderns were forbidden from teaching exam syllabi or from entering pupils into GCE exams.
This only ended when a few enlightened Sec Mod heads revelled.
 
peter bj said:
I went to grammar school and a very good job it did for me helping me to achieve higher grades then I thought possible , there were also free place for above average students of low income family as you had to pay some fees at that time creating a fairly broad spectrum of pupils but they were selected on ability . My school is now private and doing very well but they still have a number of free place available per year .

the majority of state schools have improved a lot since my time at school so I cannot see the point of more grammar schools at this point in time as it is a political distraction when Brexit needs to sorted out
Click to expand...

The grammar school you attended is not the sort May intends to reestablish.
 
Bob McC said:
Never forget also that when first set up Secondary Moderns were forbidden from teaching exam syllabi or from entering pupils into GCE exams.
This only ended when a few enlightened Sec Mod heads revelled.
Click to expand...

They made plastic car and aeroplane models?
 
Joe Hutch said:
Not that I've been able to find; this Torygraph article from a few years back gives a rough idea:

So not a sparking example of serving 'low-income' families then?

Having said that, to some people, only being able to afford £30K for fees means you're basically destitute.

Stephen
Click to expand...
 
fay spook said:
I thinks it's if judging people at 11 being unreliable how do you know you've deprived the company of the most able students.

I also think this was an 11+ question from 1984
Click to expand...

Should have said not wholly reliable. I am thinking of my own experience of being sent to a being sent to the Scottish equivalent of a secondary modern* when I should have gone to a more academic school. Might have ended up writing for the NME or something like that. :D

*The place was full of nutters, but it was a laugh.
 
Bob McC said:
Yes it was
BUT
The pass mark varied from LEA to LEA depending on how many grammar schools the LEA had.
Also nearly all LEAs sent the rest to Secondary Moderns, a few LEAs offered technical schools.
Never forget also that when first set up Secondary Moderns were forbidden from teaching exam syllabi or from entering pupils into GCE exams.
This only ended when a few enlightened Sec Mod heads revelled.
Click to expand...

I was fortunate in having such a Head and took my 'O' levels a year early at 15. One subject (Chemistry) was self taught as the school could only cope with General Science, Biology and for those staying an extra year Physics. I looked at my leaving certificate and the word 'Modern' had been removed. I vaguely remember the Head addressing an assembly where he said something about changing the school name to reflect its new role but at 14 who cared!

After I graduated and went into teaching I actually taught with some of my old school teachers in what was a flagship Comprehensive - it was one of the first.

How many schools today would let a pupil study a GCSE syllabus on their own and then let them take the exam? Just shows how visionary some schools were. In my case I eventually read Chemistry at Uni and that would never have happened if I hadn't been allowed to take the 'O'level on my own.

Cheers,

DV
 
merlin said:
Wasn't the eleven plus compulsory once Bob?
Click to expand...

This is an important point which is partially muddying the debate.

Back when old farts like me and many others went to Grammar school in the 50s and 60s, the 11+ was universally applied. (Not sure compulsory is the word)

Those who got through were offered places at Grammar. (There were also Technical schools in Nottm., known as 'bi-lateral' schools)

The important point is that there were no fees and geographical location was pretty much irrelevant, so that 'poor' kids could benefit.

So, although it's arguable that the 11+ itself, or once for all nature of the selection, was flawed, it at least applied the flaws to everyone equally.

The present grammars appear to me to select both by entrance exams, but also by house price.

The BBC, as usual, is entirely missing this important distinction between phases of Grammar school.

Mull
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top