The cost is different. I can buy a homebrew beer kit, indeed I did as a kid in the 80s, and produce beer at (then) about 30p a pint. I'm not sure now but the cheapest I can easily do (and I have, very recently) is cheap apple juice at 75p a litre, turned into cider at the same with the addition of a bit of yeast and 3 weeks' waiting. But I need a fair bit of that and it's a bit more costly. One handful of weed is dirt cheap and lasts all day.
Germany sees sense and legalises cannabis
- Thread starter Finnegan
- Start date
farfromthesun
pfm Member
How much (quantity and price) is a "handful" these days?
How big are your hands?
Darren L
Egalitarian
Not true, it requires 18 hrs light for a minimum of 28 days approximately for the growth period and 12 hrs light for 56 days approx for the flowering period, then 2 weeks for drying and up to about 2- 3 months to cure properly.
Quality produce can generally not be produced in the UK climate even in a greenhouse or poly-tunnel, so it takes an indoor growing space using artificial light source in the correct spectrum, adequate ventilation both extraction , supply and cooling , accurate temperature and humidity control and specialised growing substrate and nutrients. Careful attention needs to be paid to keeping the area sealed, spidermites can decimate a crop very quickly.
Even with modern LED light sources it's an expensive and time consuming task to grow a quality product, fair enough it's a hard plant to kill but it takes time , expertise, experience and expense to grow good quality produce.
I'm in favour of decriminalisation for home growers to produce for personal consumption, it's a disgrace that it's considered a crime. I do not smoke or use any cannabis derived edibles or oils etc, the above are just the facts.
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farfromthesun
pfm Member
I was hoping you were gonna post some stats - Darren L has rather dismantled your position in any case.
My position remains, the stuffs being successfully grown in a thousand bedrooms, have they all got growlights? 18 hours daylight? Where does that happen in nature where cannabis grows? For maximal yield, and quality, maybe, but how many bedroom botanists are that botherd? So "dismantled" ? Hardly.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
But you're just posting words about what you think is happening, without anything substantative to back up your assertions. I think it's safe to say that there are other participants on this thread that know a great deal more about these things than you do.
I'm sure that there are people more knowledgeable. I'm equally sure that you can grow the stuff in a bedroom, which is what I'm saying. I'm very sure indeed that the previous 2 sentences are facts.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
No, what you actually said a couple of pages back was:
I responded:
You've then proceeded to insist that it's cheaper to grow weed than it is to make home brew, and I asked you for some numbers (quantity and price) at which point you started to deflect. No worries.
Darren L
Egalitarian
Yes for indoor growing which is how it's done in the UK and Europe, they'll all have growlights most likely 400w Son-T or 600 w depending on the size of the grow tent, mostly a 1m2 with a 1.8 m height. They'll also need a 6" fan for extraction, with a carbon filter, a 4" for supply and a large radial for cooling. Various timers are also required. Along with the correct substrate and nutrients this will grow a quality crop in the time scales previously mentioned. Hydro became a lot more popular 25 years ago with many growers using tanks, pumps and drip feeders.
All 'bedroom botantinists' will be bothered, whilst the kits to grow and seeds are relatively cheap the energy costs and time it takes are considerable.
For outdoor growing the timescale is much longer, the best stuff originated in Afghanistan with weaker Sativa strains being popular in Jamaica, Mexico was another large outdoor producer.
So are you saying that it's not feasible to grow the stuff to a halfway decent quality on a warm windowsill in the UK? Because I've seen the stuff (now OK it may have been, probably was in fact, hemp) growing literally at the side of the road in Spain. I've also had friends who grew the stuff at home. Maybe not the best quality, but good enough. After all, I can't grow the best tomatoes in the UK, or peppers, but I can get by.
Darren L
Egalitarian
Yes it certainly would grow but it certainly would be poor quality and quantity
OK, so accepting this, is my concern that legalisation/decriminalisation would risk a social cost of people being able to get off their face all day every day for the price of a lettuce (a) a legitimate concern or (b) "No actually Steve, the production costs and logistics are such that it's not really feasible, by the time you've finished it's quite an undertaking and cost to produce enough to make it worthwhile"?
Because without wanting to go down a rabbit hole of accountancy of costs, that's one of the possible concerns. I know, as has been pointed out elsewhere, that I could homebrew alcohol, and I have, but the quantities you need are fairly substantial. There's a lot of dicking about with buckets and bottles, and if you use say apple juice as a base it's not free.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It does seem to me that, given what is outlined above by Darren L, there's somewhat more dicking about required to grow weed than create home brew. Rather more investment in kit for starters, and considerable energy costs. The question comes down to whether commercial scale growers could produce and sell a (licensed, taxed) product at prices that would compete with illicit suppliers, and whether users would accept a (modest) hike in cost for the benefits of reliable quality and hassle-free purchase. I suspect many users might, given the number of people reported to make tourist trips to places like Amsterdam for the pleasure of a legal toke. Home brew is fun to do, and if you have a mate who makes good stuff then fill your boots, but lots of pubs still thrive. Nobody buys home brew from a street corner vendor who may have adulterated it with god knows what.
Darren L
Egalitarian
Well the first fact is we all know that prohibition doesn't work, I don't think there's a reasonable argument for it, it made gangsters in the US millions during the 30's and has failed miserably to tackle illicit drugs today.
I see no reason why licensed growers could not produce product of equal quality at prices to compete with illicit suppliers given they reportedly make millions from the weed trade.
A much more shrewd way would be to undercut the illicit supply price by a small margin.
Going 'legal' in this model would also result in job growth both in the growing industry, distribution and dispensary.
It would also deprive OCGs of a large income and free up more Police time and resources to tackle many other more serious crimes, sex trafficking for example.
For me it's a win win situation, I can't see any negatives from the legalisation and decriminalisation of Cannabis products.
I really only can see positives.
I've a similar opinion about Hemp farming and even though all the evidence points to positives for that industry it's hampered by stigma and Government.
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
On the policing point, I'm inclined to agree, but we shouldn't overlook the likelihood that fields of commercially grown cannabis would be liable to attack and sabotage, either from nimbies, misguided zealots, or OCGs looking to protect their own dominance.