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Garrard 401 service + plinth

T, I am part of the OP's decision process with regard to plinths :D

I've got slate here, but prefer stacked ply but as I get older I will concede to other preferences.


I've had a lot of belt drives, including an early LP12 atm but none have hit the spot since that first Lenco. There's a percussive drive that other decks don't do. DD's are close and I'll regret selling the Sony 6750 (until new Voyagers arrive :cool: )
 
I have both a 401 and an LP12 the Linn has been in a box for more than 5 years but it does have some advantages in upper mid/treble every where else the 401 kills it. I use a ply plinth made from 5 layers of 18mm it doesn't cost much to make one and easy to finish so it looks OK.
The most important thing is not to bolt it down tight they are not flat and will deform with a noticeable fall in sound quality.
You should ignore all the sudo science about DF values it is not linear with frequency, you need a stiff base that does not resonate itself a common problem with the plinths they were originally mounted in.
The source of vibration is the motor its big and powerful compare it to the little bugger on the Linn, it needs to be serviced and the spring mountings need to be free to move, there is a plastic junction box which connects to it bolted to the base I undid it and let it float freely this improves the motor isolation and gave a good improvement.
 
wylton said:
I have a Garrard 401 (Loricraft skeletal plinth/Naim Aro/Dynavector XX2MkII/Naim Pre-fix).

I also have an LP12 in the office (Cirkus/Kore/Lingo/AO 250/Dynavector DV20XL)

Along with a Lenco 88 (Audiomods/Metal bodied DL 103) in a slate plinth.

So I have a degree of experience here.

The 401 plumbs the depths of bass that the lp12 does not and the LP12 sounds a bit soft in comparison.

It took me quite a long time to get the Lenco to sound the way I wanted it to sound, and I put this down to the slate plinth. Mine is a slate plinth on an aluminium frame and I found that some cork strips between the plinth and the frame and a glass platter mat topped with a Spotmat improved matters no end, but I still think that if I fitted an MDF plinth of the same thickness, it would be better still. It is because the slate has too much mass to be able to effectively ground the vibrations and so just reflects it back into the turntable; the result can be a grey, overly damped and smeared sound.

This is a very heavy turntable, but thus tuned, as described, does sound very good.

The idler decks do have an instantly noticeable fast and snappy sound quality, presumable due to the lack of a lossy belt.

Having said all of that, I do get a buzz from my Michell Hydraulic reference too, but that is different because it has the damping trough which must have a smoothing effect on the rotation of the platter.

All of this, of course, is IMHO.
Click to expand...

...a degree of experience,,,nicely put.. :)

Thanks for sharing your insigths, this drive factor sounds really tempting, especially considering the trouble and various attempts to get rid of as many negative aspects of a given drive belt as possible.

As discussed in another interesting thread I am following the moment.
The one about the Mober has develloped a high octane competence discussion.
Quite a refreshing change to the often occuring Versailles style trench fight-discussions..

Either way,, the longer reading that and realizing how specific probs pile up onto another with belts, the idler wheel idea's attraction is becoming the more obvious to me..
 
divedeepdog said:
T, I am part of the OP's decision process with regard to plinths :D

I've got slate here, but prefer stacked ply but as I get older I will concede to other preferences.


I've had a lot of belt drives, including an early LP12 atm but none have hit the spot since that first Lenco. There's a percussive drive that other decks don't do. DD's are close and I'll regret selling the Sony 6750 (until new Voyagers arrive :cool: )
Click to expand...

Hi Mark,
well yes,,I sensed a trace of your DNA in this.. ;)

Your comments that you preferred the stacked ply sound did a good part why I set my mind on trying this way, too.
It is not too expensive in comparison to some alternatives and is avoiding a few specific probs either, so as a first shot you could probably do worse than that.

I've started a slo-mo project on collecting up parts for a Lenco idler ~a year ago, and ordered most parts I needed + a bearing.
But even slo-mo is a bit exaggerated, as up to now nothing has turned up here.
Mostly due this thread I got reminded (thanks!) and put a bit of emphasis on the delivery again,,,hopefully some things should turn up next time.

I'm finishing some kind of weird but quite interesting suspended belter before going into that though.

Has anyone around here gone for a 12" idler, and more specific a unipivot on a 12" idler..?

Kind regards, T
 
GWM said:
I have both a 401 and an LP12 the Linn has been in a box for more than 5 years but it does have some advantages in upper mid/treble every where else the 401 kills it. I use a ply plinth made from 5 layers of 18mm it doesn't cost much to make one and easy to finish so it looks OK.
The most important thing is not to bolt it down tight they are not flat and will deform with a noticeable fall in sound quality.
You should ignore all the sudo science about DF values it is not linear with frequency, you need a stiff base that does not resonate itself a common problem with the plinths they were originally mounted in.
The source of vibration is the motor its big and powerful compare it to the little bugger on the Linn, it needs to be serviced and the spring mountings need to be free to move, there is a plastic junction box which connects to it bolted to the base I undid it and let it float freely this improves the motor isolation and gave a good improvement.
Click to expand...

Some good point outs, thank you.
 
I owned an LP12 for about 20 years. I now run a PTP Lenco (below) in slate and have never looked back for a moment. My other deck is a 401 currently under restoration which I will just have to find a home for!

I'm personally of the opinion that implementation is more important than the plinth material chosen. e.g. PTP does a totally different job to that of the Lenco top plate (even, dare I say, the much better one on the 88).
 
torstoi said:
Has anyone around here gone for a 12" idler, and more specific a unipivot on a 12" idler..?

Kind regards, T
Click to expand...

Not 12", but arguably the best Uni?

IMG_3239 by mark leatherland, on Flickr

I had a very short time with 12" Jelco, apart from noticeably reduced tracking error at the end of side, I found it boring. Lost the fun factor I enjoy. Bit of a bugger because my early plinths were made for 12".

DSC_3280 by mark leatherland, on Flickr


I'd like an Audio Origarmi arm, the Uniarm has been heralded as a modern Aro, but how long makes me indecisive?
 
Hi Nic,
I've watched your built with great interest by then, it's an impressive project really..
And yes, the implementation will make the difference.

I'm just listening to Charlie Hunter's debut album & scrolling to your pictures I found the Exposure X shown is exactly the one I am listening to, here there moment..
Feels kind of absurd as if an abstract painting is coming to live all of a sudden.
Either way, he's doing fine, I can report greetings ! :)

Your deck is wonderful,,the one thing that would be tempting to me having it taken so far, would be to have an arm on it that allows for an azimuth adjustment.
The cart is very tastefully chosen, though !

Kind regards, T
 
divedeepdog said:
Not 12", but arguably the best Uni?

IMG_3239 by mark leatherland, on Flickr

I had a very short time with 12" Jelco, apart from noticeably reduced tracking error at the end of side, I found it boring. Lost the fun factor I enjoy. Bit of a bugger because my early plinths were made for 12".

DSC_3280 by mark leatherland, on Flickr


I'd like an Audio Origarmi arm, the Uniarm has been heralded as a modern Aro, but how long makes me indecisive?
Click to expand...

Very nice pictures, Mark ! :)

I cannot see it properly,,,was that the same systems on.. ?
An AT MC I think ?
Interesting you found the Jelco unimpressive, but I have a suspicion that was not the length alone.
The Aro is amazing, absolutely ! :)

I'd love to go for a 12" plinth this time & see what's happening.
The fact that an idler is mostly kind of grateful for a little amount of mass nicely contributes to the 12" choice as a little win-win, I think.

If the arm is up to it, that said,,, :)
 
AT OC9ii in Jelco and Aro upon setup. Its a cart I know well and just gets into the groove. I've got Ace SL and neither the OC9 or PTG have been moved to the sidelines :cool:


Decca SG is different though, fantastic and frustrating (thankfully not in equal measure) and if it doesn't like a record I'll swap to another deck.

GB Tools Pod allows fore and aft adjustment so I can get overhang close to spec.
IMG_3260 by mark leatherland, on Flickr
 
divedeepdog said:
Not 12", but arguably the best Uni?

IMG_3239 by mark leatherland, on Flickr

I had a very short time with 12" Jelco, apart from noticeably reduced tracking error at the end of side, I found it boring. Lost the fun factor I enjoy. Bit of a bugger because my early plinths were made for 12".

DSC_3280 by mark leatherland, on Flickr


I'd like an Audio Origarmi arm, the Uniarm has been heralded as a modern Aro, but how long makes me indecisive?
Click to expand...

I tried out my tictok first on the 401 it was ok but I think idler decks work well with uni's I Use a 10" VPI now with a Koetsu, the Naim arm is nice but there are better uni's.
 
divedeepdog said:
AT OC9ii in Jelco and Aro upon setup. Its a cart I know well and just gets into the groove. I've got Ace SL and neither the OC9 or PTG have been moved to the sidelines :cool:


Decca SG is different though, fantastic and frustrating (thankfully not in equal measure) and if it doesn't like a record I'll swap to another deck.

GB Tools Pod allows fore and aft adjustment so I can get overhang close to spec.
IMG_3260 by mark leatherland, on Flickr
Click to expand...

...as Tony said,,,very stylish arrangement ! :)

I have a bit respect for the AT OC9 & PTG cart and I think they are masters of context in a certain way.
It appears to me some even more expensive carts have a bit too much emphasis on impressive sound, huge stage and impressive colours.
In a bit more complex Jazz passages with simple setups but musically demanding content, some of those more expensive carts have found themselves lying on their back outside the ring after a nice bodycheck form a PTG or OC9.

An astonishing experience,,,and as you say...they hold their own, definitely :)
 
GWM said:
I tried out my tictok first on the 401 it was ok but I think idler decks work well with uni's I Use a 10" VPI now with a Koetsu, the Naim arm is nice but there are better uni's.
Click to expand...

Not sure it's limited to idlers, but I tend to think unis work better on unsuspended decks.

That the Aro holds it's own against any Ekos I heard up to now on the suspended LP12 only speaks for its quality imo.

Astonishing how good it looks on the Garrard, from plain imagination I wouldn't have guessed it fits together so impressive this way..
 
401 audiomods art 9 & Lenco75 ptp5 double platter Origami uniarm Lyra Kleos, love em both will never go back to belt drives of any type or form:)

2lxrx3.jpg


oivfgn.jpg
 
Some good responses, cheers, for whatever reason I'd only just received the forum mail.

Think I'm fairly clear on fixing up the 401. Reasonable competent in such matter so will probably go down the DIY service route for the deck. Still not sure as to the plan for plinth and cartridge. Current thoughts are a 'closed' ply plinth and to use the Ortofon VMS20E cart I already have with a new needle.
 
So, to dredge this one from the depths decided on a slightly different route. After pricing up a few different options for 401 plinth, service etc and going round the loop a few times ended up going direct drive (sorry ;))

Picked up a reasonably priced Technics SL150 from ebay. Gave the technics a quick clean up, resoldered the sme plug and switched the SME arm onto the technics, the garrard is back in storage for when time and funds allow for a 'proper job' to be done.

So here is the 'new deck' in action.

35230128850_65fb0dc976_o.jpg


First go round with setting up an arm and turntable. Was expecting it not to go well, followed the instructions from SME along with the protractor for the arm. Fired it up, all sounds quite good (imo of course). Need to sort the dashpot and damper at some point.
 
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