External SSD for a Node 2i

[karlsushi]

Both into the same DAC - Hugo 2. Same CDs, ripped to lossless.

It's not even a great CD transport. Just a basic CD player at the moment. I've had better ones and know the CDs could be pushed even further.

This is a pretty interesting outcome. It feels there is a lot a CD transport has to do to even get close to a digital file sat on a hard drive. You would have thought that moving parts, a spinning disc and a laser trying to read data on the fly would all add up to a bigger challenge for the CD transport, but evidently there is more at play. More evidence in my mind that PSUs and output clocks are a large part of the story with any transport into the same DAC.

Would still be interested to hear your comparisons with the HDD and an SSD, but if you do have an interest in improving your Node, you really should look into the PSU upgrade.

 

[shevans]

Both into the same DAC - Hugo 2. Same CDs, ripped to lossless.

It's not even a great CD transport. Just a basic CD player at the moment. I've had better ones and know the CDs could be pushed even further.

Bluesound user here as well, I would be very interested to hear your finding of using the inbuilt DACs on the NODE vs CD player - if you have the inclination.

Reason for asking is that when I had a Sonos Connect no matter what DAC I tired it never sounded better and a few times worse than using the analogue outputs.

 

[TheFlash]

Both into the same DAC - Hugo 2. Same CDs, ripped to lossless.

It's not even a great CD transport. Just a basic CD player at the moment. I've had better ones and know the CDs could be pushed even further.

And at risk of diverting into unhelpful territory (please resist if tempted, chaps!) but merely trying to rule out anything else, was the same digital cable used between source and DAC?

 

[Fourlegs]

If an audiophile SSD doesn't exist get the most expensive SSD available. It'll surely be the bestest.

I know (or suspect) you are just being cheeky but the matter of the best sounding SSD has been discussed on the Antipodes owners support forum and originally it was felt that the Samsung EVO was the one to go for. However that advice has been revised and it is now the Samsung PM893 is recommended for best sound quality. The latter used to be quite expensive but the price has come down quite a bit and is more reasonable.

I have three of the Samsung EVO installed in my Antipodes streamer and have not felt motivated to change to the PM893.

 

[lAmBoY]

That PM893 is an enterprise data centre drive and is designed for high workloads. The EVO iirc is a consumer device. You 'may' be getting higher reliability if you choose the PM893, you will however be using it in an application that it was not intended for. Would a server drive sound better than a consumer drive? Absolutely no reason why it would. The PM893 is very probably 'faster', but performance is application specific and rarely about transfer rates. If you can hear any difference between two different NAND nodes and controllers running in an extremely tiny workload condition (and I mean tiny as in the SSD is barely being tickled) then I will a) eat my hat, and b)eat my socks.

 

[Darth Vader]

I'd guess that an SSD designed for enterprise servers will be SLC NAND for longevity. The EVO is TLC whilst the EVO pro is MLC. The bottom of this range the QVO is QLC NAND and has the shortest life under heavy write loads. I use a mix of all 3 Samsung SSD as they each have their place and sound quality is not one of them! Indeed my DAC plays from RAM so whether I use a HDD or an SSD doesn't matter a fig with regards to sound quality.

BTW those terms above relate to how many bits are stored per NAND cell where SLC =1, MLC=2, TLC=3 and QLC=4. The QLC is perfectly adequate for music play back as its almost entirely reads and very few writes and its that latter that wears the NAND cells out. Its also the cheapest.

DV

 

[lAmBoY]

Darth you are correct and indeed into the future we may get 8 bits, ie one 'byte' per cell! I think Kioxia has demoed 7 (hepta). This is though an internal housekeeping feature relating to data integrity and maximising capacity. An audio application would never see any benefit from using SSDs in SLC mode. In this respect data retention is more important as you are keeping music stored over years. So this is another reason to buy from the big branded guys, they write their own firmware that looks after all of these features. Architecture wise most electronics would be reading data into dram - another reason why drives should not affect the sound quality.

 

[tuga]

I think I can picture a tonmeister at Samsung listening to different SSDs and asking for changes...to the price of a dedicated drive.

 

[tuga]

the matter of the best sounding SSD has been discussed on the Antipodes owners support forum and originally it was felt that the Samsung EVO was the one to go for. However that advice has been revised and it is now the Samsung PM893 is recommended for best sound quality. The latter used to be quite expensive but the price has come down quite a bit and is more reasonable.

Cringey stuff.

 

[Fourlegs]

Darth you are correct and indeed into the future we may get 8 bits, ie one 'byte' per cell! I think Kioxia has demoed 7 (hepta). This is though an internal housekeeping feature relating to data integrity and maximising capacity. An audio application would never see any benefit from using SSDs in SLC mode. In this respect data retention is more important as you are keeping music stored over years. So this is another reason to buy from the big branded guys, they write their own firmware that looks after all of these features. Architecture wise most electronics would be reading data into dram - another reason why drives should not affect the sound quality.

Are you of the persuasion that all streamers sound the same then if all data is read into dram?

 

[lAmBoY]

Are you of the persuasion that all streamers sound the same then if all data is read into dram?

Well a streamer to a dac infers an additional interface. Local storage could be either in the streamer or the dac. I am suggesting the storage has no impact on sound quality for either implementation. Streamers may sound differently depending on how well they resolve data xfer to the dac. I know digital protocols pretty well, I also realise external interfaces can have pros and cons. Can you hear the difference between a Samsung EVO versus a PM893?

 

[Fourlegs]

Well a streamer to a dac infers an additional interface. Local storage could be either in the streamer or the dac. I am suggesting the storage has no impact on sound quality for either implementation. Streamers may sound differently depending on how well they resolve data xfer to the dac. I know digital protocols pretty well, I also realise external interfaces can have pros and cons. Can you hear the difference between a Samsung EVO versus a PM893?

Send me a 4TB PM893 and I will try to answer your question. I have a 4TB Samsung Evo so there is no need to send that.

 

[lAmBoY]

No sammys here, but I think I answered your question anyway.

 

[TheFlash]

I think we may have drifted away from Karl's question. He has a Node and the Node has no SATA card slot so he will need a portable drive. I guess he could do worse than the Samsung T9 thingie, which looks smart but I don't know how it performs sonically vs anything else he could use.

 

[Lurch]

I would say whatever external drive used then it should be network attached rather than direct to the Node. Reason being if connected direct then if the Node is switched off, everytime the Node is fired up it needs to re-index the library, whereas if its network attached it keeps the library intact and 8nstantly useable.

 

[shevans]

Using a USB drive has changed since 4.0 and there is now a Server Mode that acts differently and the library is retained. In non Server Mode the the library is discarded on rebooting / removal of the storage device.

 

[TheFlash]

Good point, John. I suppose it then depends on how often Karl intends to detach it to add new music; if rarely, it can sit there as an always-available-instantly and pretty static library.

Personally, I've always used a Synology NAS with WD Red spinny things and been delighted with it into the Node and now into the Zen. It sits next to and is attached to my router, both are 6m or so from the hifi system, and the data travels the same route whether streaming or playing from storage; guess what, no sonic difference. The NAS has been treated to an iFi iPower2 but that's the extent of my audio tweakery and, no, I didn't compare the sound vs the stock brick.

I'm intrigued by the SSD thing but struggle to see how it could affect sound quality in my system if it replaced the NAS and frankly I have other priorities. The venerable Jack (NSM) visited 15 months ago and pronounced my system the best digital he'd heard so I'm banking that.

 

[lAmBoY]

Synology is a great choice for a NAS. Just a thought, is the Node seen on the home network? If so can you copy straight from a PC to a USB attached to the Node?

 

[shevans]

Synology is a great choice for a NAS. Just a thought, is the Node seen on the home network? If so can you copy straight from a PC to a USB attached to the Node?

Seen on the network absolutely but for some reason write access has been disabled. The VAULT however you can copy to but that’s another device from Bluesound.

 

[Fretbuzz]

This is a pretty interesting outcome. It feels there is a lot a CD transport has to do to even get close to a digital file sat on a hard drive. You would have thought that moving parts, a spinning disc and a laser trying to read data on the fly would all add up to a bigger challenge for the CD transport, but evidently there is more at play. More evidence in my mind that PSUs and output clocks are a large part of the story with any transport into the same DAC.

Would still be interested to hear your comparisons with the HDD and an SSD, but if you do have an interest in improving your Node, you really should look into the PSU upgrade.

Cheers - yes. I will get a SSD. Was looking at some extra photo storage so will just use the current HDD for that. Good excuse.

Agree re theory of digital files, but yes can and have only concluded there's more at play. Was the same from the laptop too. I'd be chuffed to find a simple streamer set up that matched or trumped a good CD transport (for the ripped files), but on the other hand I won't spend too much on it as a) don't see the inheritant or lasting value in them; b) still quite like playing CDs.