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Early Stirling Broadcast LS3/5As

Martyn Miles

pfm Member
As a massive fan of Stirling ‘3/5As, I like to have a pair around.

I’ve owned new ones ( V3s ) and a fair few used ones ( V2s ) over years.
I keep pictures of them on my iPad.

Scrolling through I discovered I also owned a pair of really early ones, with the Kef drivers.
Serial numbers 88047 A/B.
I’d completely forgotten about them.

I’ve just bought a pair of V2s via PFM and I’ve discovered the serial numbers are close to
the Kef drivered pair.
Serial numbers 88130 A/B
The labels are identical on both pairs, but the Stirling cardboard box has V2 printed on it.
 
Martyn, are there any current production LS3/5A 's type speakers you have not listened to? Just curious.:)
 
I regret selling the early pair I mentioned.

Many Kef drivered ‘3/5As have passed through my hands to happy recipients.
All sounded excellent, be they ‘traditional’ models or modern iterations like Grahams and Stirlings.

I briefly owned a pair of the Falcon Acoustics’ first LS3/5As, and also Harbeths.
The Harbeth was the one which came out top in the HFN Shootout.
 
I have pondered adding a pair of Cicable external crossovers. They were reviewed in HFNRR at the same time as the "new" Stirling LS3/5as alongside the LS3/5a shootout. Has anyone heard them with the Cicables?
 
A contributor on LS35a i o said he found an improvement using the Cicables.
He also said he was a fan of the Stirling V3s and felt they outperformed the Cicabled pair.
The V3s have the same drivers as the V2s, but with upgraded crossovers.
 
The V3s are remarkable. They manage to sound both very energetic, portraying well the momentum in music, as well as being refined at the same time. I sometimes feel that I want to scale up the music performance with larger drivers, but then I forget and just listen to music.
 
As a massive fan of Stirling ‘3/5As, I like to have a pair around.
Since you've tried more of the available versions than most people, can you confirm that Derek has exactly recreated the sound of an LS3/5a using modern drivers and crossovers. Or is there some 'magic' in those old KEF drivers?

I have to note that the original idea that any two speakers will make a pair, cannot be true any more.
A Stirling V2 and a V3 will not sound (measure) the same.
Stereophile measurements of the Falcon 'Silver label' and 'Gold label' indicate that one of each will not make a pair. Which would lead to the conclusion that one, or both, are not accurate LS3/5a.

So I have to believe that all of these new versions may sound good, but none (?) exactly replicate an old LS3/5a - which will be out of spec anyway by now.

(I believe that Cicable stopped making crossovers quite a while back, and I think the Stirling V3 crossover is more or less the same as a Cicable)
 
First of all, have I ( or we ) ever heard the ‘exact’ sound of an LS3/5A ?
I once owned a pair of Harbeths, the model which won the HFN Shootout.
Definitive ?
Someone said the BBC numbers 1 & 2 were the definitive models.

I don’t think there was any ‘magic’ in those early models with Kef drive units.
There’s no magic in any audio product, though some cable and fuse suppliers would
have us believe there is...

The original LS3/5A had solid research, measurement and construction in its DNA.
I believe modern versions have the same, with the added advantage of more consistent
drive units.
Doug Stirling told me that when he and Derek Hughes were involved in the Rogers 60th Anniversary
model, they measured the Monacor drivers.
They all met their spec. exactly.

I do recall having the Harbeths and a pair of early Falcons ( before ‘Silver’ & ‘Gold’ arrived ) arrived.
Played my favourite music on both pairs over a few hours, and minutes into each pair I stopped
trying to listen for differences.
Both pairs were superb.


As for whether DH has recreated the same sound, I couldn’t give you a definitive answer.
I have a pair of LS3/5As with modern Kef designed ( Falcon ) drive units.
And I’ve just bought a pair of very early V2s.

Listened to both pairs last night.
Like the Harbeths/Falcons, both pairs sounded superb.

So I would say Derek has re-created the sound of the LS3/5A.

Others on this forum will disagree and I fully respect their opinions and findings.

As some sort of final conclusion, I recently heard Ben Savage & Hannah Saunders live.
Two voices and two guitars picked up by a single Ear Trumpet mic.

Playing my favourite song of the concert on my V2s, well I couldn’t ask for more from
a pair of small loudspeakers.
 
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I agree with you Martin in that looking for the exact sound of the original is an impossible and fruitless task, involving aural memory and comparison of speakers that are far more similar than different.

Who cares eh ? Dig which ones you have, or in your case, seemingly many of them ;)
 
Hello Ian.

Thank you for your comment.

I only own two pairs, most other ones I’ve heard were found for prospective customers.
As I like Stirlings I often ‘snap up’ them up, as people ask me to look out for a pair.

I spent quite a while making clones, as people often asked for them.
Plus some repairs.
All good fun...
 
I have and enjoy a pair of Stirling V1s and have not heard any of the later versions. Maybe one day.
 
If my memory serves me well, I recall that the V2s had a slightly more ‘robust’ bass than my V1s.
Also a little ‘smoother’ in the treble, though a change in programme could alter this.
The V2 was the first widely accepted ‘non-Kef’ LS3/5A and Stirling Broadcast have gone from
strength to strength.
 
I had two pairs of Rogers 11ohms (and AB-1s) that I bought when I first heard that Rogers had gone bust - these were Rogers NOS stock that Doug Stirling resold, so would have been the same as the V1 Stirlings. I also had my 1987 11ohm pair I ought from Rogers with my BBC discount, and these all sounded the same.

I later added the Cicable premium crossovers to the 11ohms Rogers, and put them in thin wall cabinets, and that was a MASSIVE improvement - the LS3/5a was more of a grade 1 monitor now instead of a grade 2, and I preferred them to some Harbeth M30.1s I had at the time (which sounded like a big LS3/5a - a 'mistake' the chief LS3/5a hater Alan Shaw rectified in the M30.2).

The Cicables brought a huge reduction in THD and they were a lot more transparent.

I then had some V2s which were great but sounded muddy compared to the Cicabled pair, but had way better bass extension and power handling.

The V3s have the same sort of transparency and openness as the Cicabled 11ohm pair, but they are not not quite as smooth in the upper midrange/treble. As I use them with AB-2 bass extenders the difference in bass handling is not so much of an issue for me.

I also have Cicables for the V2, but when I hooked them up they didn't sound right to me - Doug reckoned they worked well with tube amps but not solid state, but not sure about that.

Early V2s used Scanspeak tweeters, but they switched to SEAS tweeters in 2016, so perhaps there was a mismatch in the V2s I was using to the Cicables, but I was thinking about trying to contract Derek to have a look at matching them up to the current SEAS driver set in the V2 and V3, which should then give me slightly better results than the V3.

I will open up my V2 Cicables and have a look at the size of the xover to see if it might be worth it, as the V3 xover board is only 16mm smaller all round than the front baffle on the V2, is mounted on the back panel to reduce interaction with the drive units, and weighs and extra 1.2Kg over the crossover in the V2.

I also need to get the T27 replaced in my Cicabled 11 pair as I was stupidly careless with hooking them up one day and blew a tweeter :-(

I will be examining my other Rogers 11ohm pair and a Spendor 11ohm pair to see if the tweeter sensitivities match as this is not easily modifiable in the Cicable unit, and if not Falcon will try and match a pair of their tweeters to my one remaining one for cost plus time looking for a match.

When I see comments about the Cicables not making much of a difference, or even that the V3 is not much of an improvement over the V2, I can only assume that the user needs to have a look at the quality of their amplication as this is probably limiting their system - I use Quad QMP mono power amps (previous 909 monos) but note that I had to move to a Music Audio V2 classic preamp in order to for the pre-amp not to sound like it was filtering the music.

However, when I used a integrated tube amp (Rogers E40a) this had that same transparency, but was obviously a lot less money.
 
I had two pairs of Rogers 11ohms (and AB-1s) that I bought when I first heard that Rogers had gone bust - these were Rogers NOS stock that Doug Stirling resold, so would have been the same as the V1 Stirlings. I also had my 1987 11ohm pair I ought from Rogers with my BBC discount, and these all sounded the same.

They were actually built up by Doug, not Rogers. The cabinets were genuine Rogers though. Well made and sounded good, no issues.
 
The original LS3/5A had solid research, measurement and construction in its DNA.
I believe modern versions have the same, with the added advantage of more consistent
drive units.
That was my sense, too. I have owned 3 pairs of LS3/5As over the last 40+ years - 1981 Rogers 15 ohm, 1988 Spendor 11 ohm, and 2020 Falcon (gold badge). I must say my fondness of those original Rogers hasn't gone away but I don't know if that's just nostalgia or my hearing gradually going downhill over the years!
 
I had two pairs of Rogers 11ohms (and AB-1s) that I bought when I first heard that Rogers had gone bust - these were Rogers NOS stock that Doug Stirling resold, so would have been the same as the V1 Stirlings. I also had my 1987 11ohm pair I ought from Rogers with my BBC discount, and these all sounded the same.

I later added the Cicable premium crossovers to the 11ohms Rogers, and put them in thin wall cabinets, and that was a MASSIVE improvement - the LS3/5a was more of a grade 1 monitor now instead of a grade 2, and I preferred them to some Harbeth M30.1s I had at the time (which sounded like a big LS3/5a - a 'mistake' the chief LS3/5a hater Alan Shaw rectified in the M30.2).

The Cicables brought a huge reduction in THD and they were a lot more transparent.

I have a pair of the early V1 Stirlings in rosewood, which I bought with a pair of baby ones from Doug shortly after Ken Kessler's review and Ls3/5a shoot out 20 years ago. I always wondered about a pair of Cicable crossovers, as the review at that time mentioned the significant improvement. However, I see that British Audio Products, who stocked them are no longer trading following retirement. Does anyone know a source for the Cicable crossovers now?
 


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