Yes it would be wrong not to drain the system again after running the cleaner. Did he not have specific flushing equipment that doesn't utilise your circulation pumps ?
Disastrous and disruptive central heating installation; where to now?
- Thread starter Mike Reed
- Start date
Yes it would be wrong not to drain the system again after running the cleaner. Did he not have specific flushing equipment that doesn't utilise your circulation pumps ?
All traces of cleanser must be flushed out. The only way to do this is via powerflushing or a hard mains flush. The water needs testing to prove it is close to fresh water quality before inhibitor is added.
I suggest you buy a test kit from Fernox or Sentinel that you can use to send a sample off to them to analyse.
I suggest you buy a test kit from Fernox or Sentinel that you can use to send a sample off to them to analyse.
Mike I can send you some Fernox test strips but in all honesty they're only litmus paper strips but you're welcome to a couple or three.
mandryka
pfm Member
@Mike Reed -- I should really keep out of this but I wanted to say that it's a horrible situation and I hope it resolves sooner rather than later. Also I wanted to mention that your insurance policy may include some cover for trace and access.
venton
pfm Member
For your mental wellbeing I would pay for a leak finding company to come in. They will drain your system and then pump in a gas at pressure. This gas has very small molecules/atoms which permeate through the leak and through flooring etc. The guy will go around with an electronic sniffer and find where the leak is. It can sniff the tiniest trace of gas. Then you can fix it .
They may even use a stethoscope before they empty your system. They can sometimes find the leak acoustically.
Don't whatever you do add more leak sealant. That might impede the leak detection.
It's time to pay a few hundred quid to get this sorted imo.
They may even use a stethoscope before they empty your system. They can sometimes find the leak acoustically.
Don't whatever you do add more leak sealant. That might impede the leak detection.
It's time to pay a few hundred quid to get this sorted imo.
Yeah but you’re only testing for molybdate. It’s not telling you much else. If we’re talking Aluminium heat exchanger here the ph needs to be no more than 8. It’s probably much higher than that if cleanser’s still in there. Vaillant won’t like that. Of course this isn’t getting the leak sorted.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
notaclue
pfm Member
Cool. This will be the sort stuff that's needed for the best chance of finding it.
Go for a company that has all the specialist gear. Not just a plumber with thermal imaging.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Well, he didn't use it if he had (and as he seemed to have an impressive array of expensive kit, I'd think he would've had.
I'd imagine that the leak (1 to 5 litres per hour over nearly a month) would've flushed out that cleaner anyway. Powerflush was ruled out in the beginning and t.b.h., Ellenor, it is possible that he may have flushed the circuit (from the header tank as he didn't go up there) whilst we were chatting in the kitchen when he picked up his Magnaclean. Things are a bit hazy on that score.
I had been advised of this after my sister's rental prop'y leak some years ago, under concrete. However, I don't have accidental damage on my buildings section and, from the policy document, I still would only be covered for incoming mains and outgoing drainage. Internal circulation pipework is simply not mentioned but I intend to ask when I renew my policy shortly.
I'm prepared to do this, Venton, and thanks for that info., and it may well come to this but an update email is being sent to my plumber today and we both strongly feel that the initiative, at least, should be his at the mo'. Re. not using more sealant, again, I have to leave that to him initially. He may well point me to a local leak detection service. This latter would seem to incur minimal disruption, whereas accessing the leak would most certainly be, needing much furniture + fixed shelving/hifi stuff to be stored temporarily on the patio; hence waiting to longer daylight hours and settled weather to do this if it comes to that.
Bringing down pipework from upstairs (oh dear!) would be disruptive enough, but room by room would at least be manageable, leaving 2 big rads in a single storey situation (though they were new in 2005 and may be fine and somewhat isolated in circuitry from the other downstairs rads.
A bit simplistic here, but if further sealant plugs the suspected small gap, leak detection, even if on a temporary basis, surely won't be necessary.
Ahem! Divine solution?
Point noted, but thermal imaging is to detect pipe runs, and I'm pretty sure I can remember where most of those underground pipe routes are (wish I'd taken pic's and maybe I did but I think I was still using analogue kit in those days, so unlikely)
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
Maybe they're on a circuit which comes out from the boiler pipes as these were new runs. If they can be bypassed I'm laughing. Had plenty of experience last and this January in heating that fairly large area with electric during boiler outages. Even on my Oct. '21 fxd tariff, the cost increase in electricity was phenomenal. I've a 500W panel in my downstairs loo (which ain't spacious!) and I have to put it on 15 -20 min's before venturing in chilly weather. Besides, electric heating isn't as healthy and dries the air but until gas-powered hifi is invented, my valve amps manage a useful dual purpose.
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
We've found that heating is needed more when we're up and about rather than snuggled under a duvet. Of course, we could reverse the order and live by night and sleep by day but we'd soon find ourselves out of kilter with normal life.
We do have an open fire which hasn't been used for yonks, plus plenty of wood, but (a) it's messy and can be toxic (you need to have a window open of course) and would certainly need sweeping before use.
I had a gas pipe installed to this fireplace ages ago with the view of installing a gas fire (cosy and instant) but I believe this would require a full chimney flue or special adaptations nowadays. Unfortunately, this is n a north wall but from experience, would add heat to a fair area.
Mike you can connect a gas fire to the fireplace no problem provided the gas fire is suitable for the fireplace ie a simple convector gas fire will probably be okay but you need the chimney checked and possibly swept and you'll need purpose provided ventilation depending on the fire and you can also use a solid fuel fire in the same fireplace with the same provisos but if the fireplace and chimney were used for a coal fire then it should be suitable for burning wood or fitting a gas fire to it.
This one here below is hard to beat BTW
https://www.snhtradecentre.co.uk/product/flavel-misermatic-gas-fire-black-formb0en/
https://www.snhtradecentre.co.uk/pr...bzHpScZTxWldmxB1c9HQUBxjjUseeHTQaAiZvEALw_wcB
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
Thanks Tony; very useful info. for next winter. I had a similar one in a previous property and like their simplicity and heat output. Our open fire was used for wood; maybe a few lumps of coal initially but we had (and still have) lots of wood, mainly in the form of tree stumps and branches.
If we had an open fire in the current circumstances the room 'stat would never activate the boiler. As I write, with the 'stat on 16 and sum pouring in, the flow rate has dropped to 19 and drips have started into the tank. A lot better than previously and this only happens on these sunny but chilly days in the mid/late afternoons. We're thinking of removing the 'stat and trying it free-standing in better (cooler) locations.
As a matter of interest, if we have to disable the htg when it comes to warmer weather by tying up the ball-valve again, will we still be able to use the boiler to pump hot water into the cylinder? Don't see why not but I'm ignorant of this S plan system and the immersion is comparatively useless.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Nope; it's been a learning curve. T.b.h., he did quickly go through the programmer and room 'stat though. I asked if there was anything we should know about the boiler window and the answer was no. We got there (or at least my wife did) by leaflets/instr. and Google.
Did he set the programmer or leave that for you to sort ? Some are far easier to use than others, hopefully yours is straightforward ?
Aye Mike you can just use the hot water only by selecting that option on the programmer or by turning down the room stat to five or something you'll still be using the heating though the boiler will come on to heat the cylinder basically you're turning off the rads but not the boiler.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Bit of a doddle, t.b.h. (Honeywell) but we only use 'continuous' (i'e. manual choice of when and if). May be a trickier for more complex arrangments.
The reason I asked was that the c/h water will gradually leak out so it won't matter what the 'stat does ; actually, the Vaillant frost protection is set at 12 degrees (ridiculous !) so there won't be any or much water left in the system with the ball-valved tied up.
B.t.w., can I simply remove the batteries (and obv. I can) in the 'stat, unscrew from the wall and use it in other areas free-standing (Honeywell)? Wife is hesitant and plumber hasn't replied to that question but can't see why I can't, assuming the controls are off.