Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Have you been on a space shuttle lately? The mains is shite these days. All those budget cuts.
Dedicated Mains (again)
- Thread starter jevy47
- Start date
Have you been on a space shuttle lately? The mains is shite these days. All those budget cuts.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Not at all. If my mother hadn't married a bloke with my surname....
Pete the Feet
pfm Member
Indeed, Miss Mitchell our junior school teacher married a Mr Mitchell; that was many moons ago.
djftw
Heterodox Member
OK back on topic - Don't feed the Trolls!
For my 2 penneth a modern PME system should give you a vanishingly small earth impedance, an older system might benefit from extra spikes - or even just larger cross section cable from the CU to the earthing point, but this is definitely one for a properly qualified and equipt* professional.
One comment though, improving the earth connection between the sockets and CU could be worthwhile. I know my flat in Aberdeen which was quite a recent build had the connection between the meter housed in a sort of utility cupboard thing on the ground floor, and the CU in the broom cupboard in the flat run in what I am pretty sure was 16mm T&E with a separate 16mm earth - at any rate a substantial flat grey cable and an equally substantial earth cable. I cant see any particular reason why you couldn't run a full size earth alongside T&E for a socket, indeed I imagine you might have to in some circumstances - would have to check to be sure though, if not though I know running singles in flexible conduit is as I have helped an electrician I do trust** run the singles into the conduit in his paddock so he could just run the conduit in at the job. I have never quite understood the reduced CSA of the CPC in T&E - in a modern RCD protected circuit it doesn't especially concern me, but I'm pretty sure it pre-dates that, I guess like ring mains it is a product of war/post-war metal shortages...
*Why doesn't Chrome know that is a word? Generally liking Chrome, but the spell check is useless.
**Having known him since age 7 when he chased me with a stick with sheep shit on the end, which ended up in his face when I grabbed and snapped the stick!
For my 2 penneth a modern PME system should give you a vanishingly small earth impedance, an older system might benefit from extra spikes - or even just larger cross section cable from the CU to the earthing point, but this is definitely one for a properly qualified and equipt* professional.
One comment though, improving the earth connection between the sockets and CU could be worthwhile. I know my flat in Aberdeen which was quite a recent build had the connection between the meter housed in a sort of utility cupboard thing on the ground floor, and the CU in the broom cupboard in the flat run in what I am pretty sure was 16mm T&E with a separate 16mm earth - at any rate a substantial flat grey cable and an equally substantial earth cable. I cant see any particular reason why you couldn't run a full size earth alongside T&E for a socket, indeed I imagine you might have to in some circumstances - would have to check to be sure though, if not though I know running singles in flexible conduit is as I have helped an electrician I do trust** run the singles into the conduit in his paddock so he could just run the conduit in at the job. I have never quite understood the reduced CSA of the CPC in T&E - in a modern RCD protected circuit it doesn't especially concern me, but I'm pretty sure it pre-dates that, I guess like ring mains it is a product of war/post-war metal shortages...
*Why doesn't Chrome know that is a word? Generally liking Chrome, but the spell check is useless.
**Having known him since age 7 when he chased me with a stick with sheep shit on the end, which ended up in his face when I grabbed and snapped the stick!
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Mike Reed
pfm Member
djftw
Heterodox Member
Whoops! I did mean equipped - I'm still blaming Google though, the flipping spell check doesn't bring up 'equipped' as a suggestion when you type 'equipt'!
Yes actually a lot like a slight lisp, sort of 'pen-uf' like a biro and the back end of 'enough', but with a slight sibilance that makes it more F-like, but not so much as the sort of full blown 'enuff' or 'nuffin' you hear a lot in more southern/urban accents. We jus tork reit strange roun' 'ere! Well, I don't especially - my family aren't from here and we travelled a lot, but there are some bits I just like the sound of that I employ from time to time! It is sort of unmistakably Yorkshire, but with bits of slang and certain pronunciations that you don't really hear anywhere else and which change from generation to generation. My generation added quite a bit of the Viz Profanasaurus to it!
To be honest, with my generation we mostly just sound middle-class-rural-East-Yorkshire, but put it on a bit when we see old schoolmates etc. I think in the first place it was mostly affected as a means of not sounding posh, without sounding like "chavs" - who we (somewhat ironically considering this is a town) call "townies"; as youngsters they were the "other" as it were, regarded as vulgar, boorish, ostentatious, violent sociopaths! Though there is a continuity with the older generations of long settled families - the town having grown enormously over the last couple of decades. I suppose it probably started as a way of asserting our rural identity as opposed to the more metropolitan children of the somewhat yuppieish types who moved into new Barretts etc. developments, but as most of them became more accepted (those who weren't were generally pretentious) they started speaking like that too.
Sorry, that's rather rambling! Oh well, serves you right for being a linguatroll!
Yes actually a lot like a slight lisp, sort of 'pen-uf' like a biro and the back end of 'enough', but with a slight sibilance that makes it more F-like, but not so much as the sort of full blown 'enuff' or 'nuffin' you hear a lot in more southern/urban accents. We jus tork reit strange roun' 'ere! Well, I don't especially - my family aren't from here and we travelled a lot, but there are some bits I just like the sound of that I employ from time to time! It is sort of unmistakably Yorkshire, but with bits of slang and certain pronunciations that you don't really hear anywhere else and which change from generation to generation. My generation added quite a bit of the Viz Profanasaurus to it!
To be honest, with my generation we mostly just sound middle-class-rural-East-Yorkshire, but put it on a bit when we see old schoolmates etc. I think in the first place it was mostly affected as a means of not sounding posh, without sounding like "chavs" - who we (somewhat ironically considering this is a town) call "townies"; as youngsters they were the "other" as it were, regarded as vulgar, boorish, ostentatious, violent sociopaths! Though there is a continuity with the older generations of long settled families - the town having grown enormously over the last couple of decades. I suppose it probably started as a way of asserting our rural identity as opposed to the more metropolitan children of the somewhat yuppieish types who moved into new Barretts etc. developments, but as most of them became more accepted (those who weren't were generally pretentious) they started speaking like that too.
Sorry, that's rather rambling! Oh well, serves you right for being a linguatroll!
(Hi Fi) ..."a small industry and one that is contracting"...... is a statement that needs certain qualification. If based upon 'Hi F' being manufactured today, without an eye on the rapid changes taking place in development elsewhere or accommodating the equally changing expectations of users, world-wide....I agree. It is easy to fall into the trap that the state and health of Hi Fi, centers around certain narrow minded interests that appear not to think outside the square.
Along that line....to talk of 'dedicated mains' is 'a boy's finger in the dyke' material. when thinking of the great traveled distances of electricity from power station to home. And then finally at some home doorstop: some attempt is going to be made to magically 'dry clean' the Power......and in some cases if considered not good enough, to also 're-earth' it. Next , I expect to see an argument about the sonic qualities of electric power: as presented to Hi Fi lovers' homes. Whether it was produced by gas powered turbines, wind, nuclear, hydro dams, coal or solar!!!!
Surely when reading the numerous comments about various 'cult ' equipment, one was lead to believe 'they had already taken care of all those sorts of problems' with specified cables. Those that wish to subscribe to 'dedicated mains and special earthing etc' are the ones exploding that argument....not I. Though I expect to be accused of 'rocking the boat'!
Some contributors appear to not want to see anyone challenge what are purely, their own totally subjective arguments. Where is the 'science'? That is ,the ability to demonstrably prove 'a fact' repeatedly , every time?
Anyone.....? As for being accused of being "bitter and twisted" , I suggest my accuser has their own knickers ' a little knotted'.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
TER,
Are you from the States? You use the word 'center', which doesn't appear in British English (nor French, from which it derives).
Dedicated mains to a hifi installation? I couldn't give a toss about the scientific whys and wherefores, for three very good reasons:-
It's entirely logical, as the primary source component, to separate the feed to one's hifi from that for domestic uses; as far as is possible, of course.
It's cheap to install, doesn't need maintenance and has longevity.
It works, makes a system much more revealing and I'm a very happy bunny !
Amen
Are you from the States? You use the word 'center', which doesn't appear in British English (nor French, from which it derives).
Dedicated mains to a hifi installation? I couldn't give a toss about the scientific whys and wherefores, for three very good reasons:-
It's entirely logical, as the primary source component, to separate the feed to one's hifi from that for domestic uses; as far as is possible, of course.
It's cheap to install, doesn't need maintenance and has longevity.
It works, makes a system much more revealing and I'm a very happy bunny !
Amen
djftw
Heterodox Member
Ter, please don't be a bore. I would suggest that the benefits people observe from having a separate radial for their hi-fi can actually be explained perfectly scientifically. If you do some research into why it is desirable in single phase systems to have a separate Earth and Neutral, what I suspect is the main reason for their observations should be apparent. The other, I suspect might is mains impedance, which has well understood effects that have to be considered in a lot of industrial applications. Whether they could have audible effects on a hi-fi or not on such a small scale I couldn't really tell you, but they might and if you're already committed to the much more considerable expenditure for someone to run the cable in for you and/or hook it up, the c£0.65/m to go up to 6mm T&E from 4mm, or c£1.50/m to go up from 6mm to 10mm is hardly a major expense for peace of mind. The power companies in most countries must supply electricity at the service point meeting a certain quite strict specification and go to quite considerable lengths to achieve that. Once it's in your house it's your problem.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Mike, don't feed the troll.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
We would certainly like that!
OK, so what we are talking about re. earth spikes, etc. is additional to the incoming earth connection. In this case I don't see there being any risks involved, if all your mains connected equipment is connected to the incoming earth, then a certain minimum impedance should be available, meaning your RCD's etc. will protect the user.
The spikes are then in parallel, so shouldn't impact on safety.
Cheers,
Mort
cooky1257
pfm Member
Please point out the areas where Ter's observations are in error.
The man is entitled to disagree, be utterly sceptical and caution against f**kin about with mains/earth. Your use of 'we' needs qualification.
I'm also surprised despite your very elaborate mains/earthing the rest of your system wasn't able to reveal in dramatic detail the fact your cd player was on the fritz
.This art of ganging up bollocks has been tried in other forums-it's not nice.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
When Simon was round and we were unplugging things I set them off.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
I think I have explained the CD player situation elsewhere. Ter's problem is his refusal to accept any subjective observation even when relevant and sought by the OP.
His 'contribution' amounts to nothing but a thread crap.
His 'contribution' amounts to nothing but a thread crap.
Don't worry cooky1257. I am a tough critter who can handle the Reed's and the Toy's of this World. All they have is a theory, not demonstrable repeatable science on which to base their point. As a empty defense, we have Reed playing the role of a the pedantic English Master and of the other, someone equally pedantic for a different reason, desperately projecting a cartoon image of itself as a well breed gentleman. It appears though, the latter has amusingly dropped his guard somewhat of late: spitting out the words 'troll' and 'crap' incessantly. Whilst building a special earthing scarecrow in his garden, to ward off ghosts from attacking his HI Fi. It is funny how 'the little inconsequential things' define people.Please point out the areas where Ter's observations are in error.
The man is entitled to disagree, be utterly sceptical and caution against f**kin about with mains/earth. Your use of 'we' needs qualification.
I'm also surprised despite your very elaborate mains/earthing the rest of your system wasn't able to reveal in dramatic detail the fact your cd player was on the fritz
This art of ganging up bollocks has been tried in other forums-it's not nice.
Re-Joyce
... Jason H that is.
Dedicated feed and some care over earthing will reap rewards, especially if you have equipment which is more susceptible to poor mains. Best sound I ever achieved with a 42.5 and 110 was at my parents where they are the only house on a phase of the close at hand step down transformer. I used to find Naim equipment, Olive and earlier strongly affected by poor mans, similarly my Micromega starts buzzing away when the wrong equipment starts nearby. Gear with switched mode supplies are likely to be affected a whole lot less although if less than ideally designed they will stick a lot of high frequency switching noise back on the mains.
cheers
Jason
cheers
Jason
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Don't worry cooky1257. I am a tough critter who can handle the Reed's and the Toy's of this World. All they have is a theory, not demonstrable repeatable science on which to base their point. As a empty defense, we have Reed playing the role of a the pedantic English Master and of the other, someone equally pedantic for a different reason, desperately projecting a cartoon image of itself as a well breed gentleman. It appears though, the latter has amusingly dropped his guard somewhat of late: spitting out the words 'troll' and 'crap' incessantly. Whilst building a special earthing scarecrow in his garden, to ward off ghosts from attacking his HI Fi. It is funny how 'the little inconsequential things' define people.
TER,
I AM, indeed,a pedantic English 'Master' (teacher, presumably). I'm also a (retired) teacher of English (language, not literature).
Can I point out, then, that the apostrophe is NEVER used to form plurals, as in the the greengrocer's 'APPLE'S', and in your case, the Reed's and Toy's. Additionally, unless you are an American, 'defense' is incorrect.
This is highly off-topic, though hopefully educational, so to get back in line, and to comment on a recent earthing post by MORT, adding a dedicated earth rod can be extremely dangerous. It really does depend upon what kind of earth bonding/route you have in situ; ask any competent sparks.
Yes, as far as I know, it's a legal requirement to have your dedicated mains installation connected to the EXISTING house earthing system. Mine cetainly is, or my sparks wouldn't have certified it, as he did the final connections.