Dealers v Ebay

[simon g]

As this is supposed to be a discussion of selling to dealers, not buying from them, I thought I'd bring things back on track by relating a fairly recent experience.

I did see an item with a dealer that I wanted to buy. I had an item to sell, so I asked for a trade in price. I was offered £150. I subsequently sold the item privately for just under £400. I am very aware that dealers need to make a profit and will always offer less than the private sale value but this was just ridiculous . The dealer could have sold the item for around £500. I would have accepted £300 as a trade in. So, the dealer could have made £200 on the trade-in deal plus the profit on the item for sale.

Needless to say I shall not be selling to/buying from this dealer in the future.

It was not Central Audio. I am not prepared to say who it was.

 

[doctorf]

Use them or lose them. It applies to local shops, hi-fi dealers included.
Just don't cry when they all disappear.

Simon F
ps a local dealer recommended a cartridge to me a couple of years back and quoted over £500. I could not give him the business when I was able to buy the same thing from Singapore for less than £300.

 

[Mick P]

Chaps

We need a decent dealer network in order to provide advice on kit set up etc etc.

I am always disappointed at the inbuilt self destruct button most small dealers and manufacturer have when it comes to dealing with customers. They seem fixed back in the 1970s and just seem to excel at slagging their own industry off.

Basically most of them are letting the industry down.

Regards

Mick

 

[Cereal Killer]

Agreed Mick, people/dealers keep going on about how bad things are, perhaps a better attitude would help!!

 

[Midlandaudiox]

There is no VAT to apply to used goods but if the retalier is registered for VAT he pays VAT on the margin,the difference between purchase and sale price

Only if the retailer is part of the margin scheme and runs a seperate inventory and displays this exclusion clause on the invoice
"input tax deductionhas not been and will not be claimed by me in respect of the goods sold on this invoice"
If the retailer is not part of this scheme then its 17.5% of the total selling price.
In order to be non VAT registered you need to turn over less than £68,000, and TBH anyone doing less that that still can be registered if they choose, but its compulsory if its over that amount.
Cheers
john

 

[ratcatcher]

Not sure what your gripe is here Tony, Ebay has existed for a long time now and its hardly likely to disappear any time soon. Its influence has been widespread in other secondhand markets that i also like to dabble in, such as diving gear and classic motorcyle parts. A quick walk round a recent autojumble and you can hear ebay mentioned constantly. An acceptance of its influence as a major force and adopting to it can only ensure your survival.
BTW, i advertise my old equipment on PFM first at a price i think is acceptable (after checking the prices they reach on ebay). Most equipment i manage to sell eventually but im constantly bombarded with offers i wouldnt even have the balls to suggest. There seems to be a prevalent attitudge that just because we have the same interests and belong to this forum, i should sell at a much reduced price. I dont have any such sentimentality, my money is mine and im not a charity. As a last resort i then place the items on ebay and i ALWAYS achieve the asking price and in most cases, more. The risk is wether it makes enough extra to cover the extortionate ebay/payal costs. Despite this, i still make more than the lowball offers i receive.

Give me a good reason why i should sell to you???

I also apply the same philosophy to buying new gear, ebay being just one of sites i check for prices. Anybody with a morsel of grey matter should do the same. I feel no allegiance to any dealers unless they offer the product at a competative price. I do however, consider warranties, comeback etc. The actual worth of these is certainly subjective and can only be decided on by yourself. Given the excellent service ive received from my credit card (and in rare circumstances, paypal) on the occasional dodgy transaction, the odds can only be stacked up against the secondhand dealers such as yourself.....welcome to the new world.

PS a recent secondhand purchase from midlandaudiox was in my view the exception...they priced their item accordingly based on market value plus a LITTLE extra for their expenses. Service was excellent and i'm chuffed to pieces.

 

[Central Audio]

OUT

 

[unclepuncle]

Ebay is not a last resort in terms of achieving a good price - in fact as long as you list an item effectively you will almost always make more than in the classifieds, hififorsale etc, and definitley more than a dealer will offer.

Whenever I have something to sell (which is rather frequently) I always gauge the realisitic ebay selling price and then knock off about 10-15% to take into account ebay and Paypal fees, and then list the item at the reduced price on the hifi forum and hififorsale etc.

Sadly the better hifi forums classified sections (PFM, Wigwam, Zerogain) are now becoming more like AVForums where desultory offers are the norm and ebay becomes more and more attractive.

 

[Flossie]

Sadly the better hifi forums classified sections (PFM, Wigwam, Zerogain) are now becoming more like AVForums where desultory offers are the norm and ebay becomes more and more attractive.

What's very noticeable is how people post "offers invited" on here... then reject any offers that are "less than I could get on Ebay". If you have a price you expect, quote it!

I don't know where these "desultory offers" are, prices have generally increased dramatically over the past few years... second hand prices used to be less than 50% new price, now people expect >80%

 

[Cereal Killer]

FWIW, i think some of Central Audio/Tony's prices are what i'd expect to pay on a private buy.. some not. But either way, I've still not bought anything from him - yet, been tempted but things have sold quicker than i could muster up the cash. I can't see myself changing anything now till its breaks, outside warranty, and isn't cost effective to have repaired after.

 

[unclepuncle]

I agree that Tony's prices are often very good - I have bought 3 items form him in the last 3-4 years and sold them all on for a profit

 

[Village plank]

Not sure what your gripe is here Tony, Ebay has existed for a long time now and its hardly likely to disappear any time soon. Its influence has been widespread in other secondhand markets that i also like to dabble in, such as diving gear and classic motorcyle parts. A quick walk round a recent autojumble and you can hear ebay mentioned constantly. An acceptance of its influence as a major force and adopting to it can only ensure your survival.
BTW, i advertise my old equipment on PFM first at a price i think is acceptable (after checking the prices they reach on ebay). Most equipment i manage to sell eventually but im constantly bombarded with offers i wouldnt even have the balls to suggest. There seems to be a prevalent attitudge that just because we have the same interests and belong to this forum, i should sell at a much reduced price. I dont have any such sentimentality, my money is mine and im not a charity. As a last resort i then place the items on ebay and i ALWAYS achieve the asking price and in most cases, more. The risk is wether it makes enough extra to cover the extortionate ebay/payal costs. Despite this, i still make more than the lowball offers i receive.

Give me a good reason why i should sell to you???

I also apply the same philosophy to buying new gear, ebay being just one of sites i check for prices. Anybody with a morsel of grey matter should do the same. I feel no allegiance to any dealers unless they offer the product at a competative price. I do however, consider warranties, comeback etc. The actual worth of these is certainly subjective and can only be decided on by yourself. Given the excellent service ive received from my credit card (and in rare circumstances, paypal) on the occasional dodgy transaction, the odds can only be stacked up against the secondhand dealers such as yourself.....welcome to the new world.

PS a recent secondhand purchase from midlandaudiox was in my view the exception...they priced their item accordingly based on market value plus a LITTLE extra for their expenses. Service was excellent and i'm chuffed to pieces.

Agreed......... The sub I have here in the classifieds was on ebay for £1250 or best offer. There were three scarabs trying to offer me £50 - £80 - and £120.... the nerve of these people!

 

[sq225917]

When it sells you'll know how much it was actually worth...

 

[Moorgate]

Cherished Linn and Linnstore and just the start from Linn I suspect. Don't get me wrong I don't have it in for hifi dealers per se I just think face to face retail is really going to struggle to survive in the next few years.

CJ

I disagree. It depends on how well people interface with their customers. A lot of people have drifted to the forums and ebay because they are not receiving what they want from their local shops. Lots of people find forums useful but lots don't. Often they meet nothing but opinionated and sometimes rude replies to their posts. Besides most people recommend what they have themselves and so getting unbiased advice is not as easy as one might think. Retailers who look after their customers (and that doesn't always mean solely on price although that is an important ingredient) will win sales from those who do not. It is likely that in time people who do not interface well with a changing customer are less likely to survive and this will leave more customers for those that do.

You have to give people a reason to do face to face business with you. Demonstration and good advice is one example but there are lots of others.

 

[Moorgate]

BTW we sell much of our trade in kit on ebay and often get more than we would get in store or on our own website. This I find confusing but I guess its down to people getting caught up in the excitement of the bid. I have no beef with ebay except the fees, the forced use of paypal and the totally one-sided dispute system.

 

[rich46]

on line is ok for the relative cheap gear/leads etc. go to a dealer and if you a regular customer you will get a deal that suits. i use moorgate and paul is a decent guy

 

[ClaraBannister]

When it sells you'll know how much it was actually worth...

Read and note, people.

 

[zygote23]

I value dealers. I am lucky to have one 20 minutes away. I've bought most of my recent kit from them and will doubtless buy again in the future (I am not a compulsive box swapper). I find them happy to discuss even tentative enquiries without giving me the impression that I am a tyre kicker. I have enjoyed the odd evening they have set up to demonstrate kite which would be the equivalent of a years salary for me with no pressure.

I can also see the point that some are making with reference to online buying. For example why does one of these:

cost the guts of £500

But one of these:

cost the guts of £200.

Just thinking out loud here

 

[Covkxw]

zygote: the cattylink one is likely a copy-cat and, hence, no R&D costs to recover nor, probably, is it intended to be sold in international markets.

However, both are way over-priced imho.

 

[sq225917]

because one has distributor margin and dealer margin and the other doesn't.