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DAC Dilemma

Foxman50 said:
Have to disagree with this, external PSU does improve the NDX but using something like a Chord Hugo on it makes it a far more capable player. I ended up selling my PSX once i had Hugo installed.

To the OP, you need to demo as many as possible in your own system. What sounds good in one system may not in another.

Best
Click to expand...

Why? Even according to Naim lore this is bollocks, UnitiServe/NaimDAC/555PSU is held to be superior to everything except UnitiServe/NDS/555PSU. The digital outputs from all their streamers, including the digital only output from the UnitiServe are identical - this does not change somehow when using a 3rd party DAC. This is actually the same reason you have sold your PSX, it only powers the analogue side of the NDX. If you have a UnitiServe in your system try it.
 
The Teddy DAC at the moment is in the price range of what I call the "sweet spot" of DACs today. About 600 -1000 GBP, maybe up to a bit more. In that range there are a lot of very good DACs. Some of them probably are as good or better than some that go for 2000.
I'd first decide what features you want on the DAC. With your setup you don't need features like volume control or BALANCED outs, I'd assume. Do you want ability to playback DSD or DXD files? If not, you have more options.
What kind of sound do you like? Some DACs give a very clean, clear, "modern" sound. Would you like that in your system or do you think you want something else? A DAC with tube output?

Off the top of my head, another in that price range is the newish PS Audio DAC, the Gain Cell, that's gotten rave reviews. It has a volume control, but you can get around it (unless you find it sounds better than your existing pre :)).

If at all possible, it would be best to hear a few before you buy. If you can't and you like your TP stuff, the TeddyDAC might be the way to go. It will match visually and should be a complement sonically.
 
Hi folks
Thanks for the posts
To just pick up a few points:- the squeezebox isn’t made anymore; the metrum musett has also gone but presumably replaced by the amethyst; neither the NDX nor UServe have USB outs, so unless I go for a different streamer or use a PC or Mac Mini an asynchronous USB input won’t help.
It’s hard to put into words what sound I want. I’d like to play a track and think “wow that’s good” and just want to play more and more. When I put music on, I like to listen and not be doing other stuff such as reading or catching up on emails. I know that the edge of the seat and smile on the face phase eventually passes but with the CDX2 things always sounded fresh and involving to me and that sparkle went when I swapped to the NDX. It’s that that I’d like to get back.
In terms of features, I don’t need a volume control (lots of DACs have them) and I dont need balanced outputs as my amps don’t have them. I don’t have any DSDs. I have a few (about 20) 96 and 192kHz downloads.
Thanks again for your input
 
djftw said:
If I can go off left field as it were... the NDX has an extremely capable DAC but as a stand alone unit one hampered by an underengineered power-supply.
Click to expand...

This makes sense, the NDX on it's own is embarrassingly bad given it's RRP.
 
DAC wise, I would again recommend the Beresford models, either Caiman II or SEG, both are ridiculously good for very little outlay.
 
Yomanze said:
> Hey this NDX sounds great
>> Yep
> Didn't hear any difference with the XPS though, despite it costing more than the NDX
>> Hmm, better sort that then by hobbling the NDX PSU, how does it sound now?
> Not as good
>> Great
Click to expand...

Confused by this?
 
Fair enough, I thought the XPS certainly improved the NDX but, the base NDX should sound a lot better than it does.
 
djftw said:
Why? Even according to Naim lore this is bollocks, UnitiServe/NaimDAC/555PSU is held to be superior to everything except UnitiServe/NDS/555PSU. The digital outputs from all their streamers, including the digital only output from the UnitiServe are identical - this does not change somehow when using a 3rd party DAC. This is actually the same reason you have sold your PSX, it only powers the analogue side of the NDX. If you have a UnitiServe in your system try it.
Click to expand...
Whoops think I mIsread your comment, must get glasses checked. Thought u was saying it wouldn’t make to difference to the NDX to have external DAC.
 
Yomanze said:
> Hey this NDX sounds great
>> Yep
> Didn't hear any difference with the XPS though, despite it costing more than the NDX
>> Hmm, better sort that then by hobbling the NDX PSU, how does it sound now?
> Not as good
>> Great
Click to expand...
Yep one reason I got rid of my Naim gear. ;)
 
Billsie said:
Hi folks
It’s hard to put into words what sound I want. I’d like to play a track and think “wow that’s good” and just want to play more and more. When I put music on, I like to listen and not be doing other stuff such as reading or catching up on emails. I know that the edge of the seat and smile on the face phase eventually passes but with the CDX2 things always sounded fresh and involving to me and that sparkle went when I swapped to the NDX. It’s that that I’d like to get back.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with your assessment there, I found the NDX lost all of the sparkle that the CDX2 had, although possibly it was more detailed.

Recently, I moved to a Cambridge Audio CXC transport with Beresford Caiman II DAC which has all of the sparkle that I got from the CDX2 plus more and combined was less than a third of the price of a NDX, so I am happy :)
 
Hi
Most of the recommendations have been for DACs in the £600 to £1000 range that firedog referred to as the "sweet spot" range, with the Audial s and the Metrum Onyx being around the £2000 mark. Since the DAC is essentially the new source component, do you think that the old maxim of source first has gone. A little while ago one would expect the source component to be either the most expensive item or be on a par with the other major components (amps and speakers). What's the consensus view on this now?
 
Billsie said:
Hi
Most of the recommendations have been for DACs in the £600 to £1000 range that firedog referred to as the "sweet spot" range, with the Audial s and the Metrum Onyx being around the £2000 mark. Since the DAC is essentially the new source component, do you think that the old maxim of source first has gone. A little while ago one would expect the source component to be either the most expensive item or be on a par with the other major components (amps and speakers). What's the consensus view on this now?
Click to expand...

Personal view, with a modern DAC you would expect performance to be a lot less pricey than with traditional sources.

A turntable is mechanically, whilst simple in concept, actually very complicated to get right and good engineering costs lots. Similarly getting the data off a CD in real time without introducing a metric sh!t ton of jitter and errors, doing what you can to correct the errors you do get from the transport without introducing more problems, then amplifying a weak signal from an old school DAC chip using filters to account for its eccentricities and get rid of any extranious noise it generates was quite a complicated affair.

In contrast, building a decent DAC with modern chips should be, whilst not easy, easier. And the lack of additional skilled labour for the mechanical components must surely change the cost/performance coefficient! By how much is, however, probably more controversial!
 
Thanks
It just struck me how things have changed and how much DACs cost in relation to the other bits and on a similar vein how cheap CDs are compared to vinyl and HD downloads.....but I digress.
 
I'm enjoying this thread - I have the same set up as the original poster IE Teddy MB100s and PR1 which have replaced Naim gear (250-2, NAC202). However my source is still Naim - a CDX2 - connected to a TEDDY XPS. However the CD is now getting long in the tooth (2005) and starting to mis-read discs which aren't perfect. I'm unsure whether to get a new laser for the CD or to go down the DAC route - I'm not sure exactly what I need to buy and I presume there will be alot of work (pleasure?) involved in ripping my CD collection. Though I am perfectly satisfied with CDs I recognise that things move on and I like the idea that a DAC should prove to be more reliable than a CDplayer. Compared to my setup which Source/DACS will give as good as or better sound.
 
Hi jamjar.
As you can see from my previous posts I opted for the UnitiServe and the NDX. I’m pleased with the UServe (which has now been superseded by the UnitiCore) but I find the NDX a little bland in comparison to my CDX2. I think you’d notice a big difference from your CDX2/TXPS combo. The UServe works well ripping CDs to WAVs and can be connected directly to a NAS and controlled by the NServe app or via a network using the NStream app. I’m not sure that I’d buy it for a non-Naim system though. A favourite alternative seems to be a Mac mini. This again can be used in a network or connected directly to the DAC. if you’re using a network, then you’ll need a streamer or a combined streamer/Dac.
Along with the host of other posts and recommendations in this thread, I was contacted directly with 3 other recommendations for DACs. These are the Mytek Brooklyn+ (this has a built in phono stage and there’s a separate thread running about it presently), the exaSound e32 (there is a streamer made for this) and the Exogal Comet.
Quite a few “non-mainstream” DACs are only stocked by one or two dealers or have to be bought/imported directly. I wanted to be as sure as possible before ordering anything from abroad since although there is often a 30day returns policy paying tax and import duty and then having to reclaim it if returning the product along with paying carriage seems quite a faff.......hence my original post.
 
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