Jodet
pfm Member
I have the separates and enjoy them very much.
Croft integrated : $phile
- Thread starter Cato
- Start date
I have the separates and enjoy them very much.
Quad 57's. They work very well together. I like the Golden Dragon EC833's I popped in the Croft.
Remarkable little amplifier - does so very much right, and the phono stage (MM) is outstanding. if you don't need to much power (I don't) or bass (mosfet can be a little soft in this respect with inefficient speakers) then I would encourage audition.
It is probably not as sweet as a Leben CS 600 (one of my favourites), but a) is a 1/3 the cost and b) is more transparent.
I read Art Dudley's review, and like him, I love Shindo (except for the price tag) - but am not so sure it is valid to compare the Croft to that line of country. Shindo are very ripe sounding amps - very "musical" whereas I would say the Croft is more to the transparent side of life. Very different animals in any event. I agree they both get things right with the music, but beyond that am not sure it's a great comparison.
I never read JA's measurements - they mean nothing to me and don't tell me how well I will like something. There are a ton of amps out there that I am sure measure well but I would not care to have in my home. And vice versa. No doubt for the insecure they would help confirm a buying decision - or give bragging rights - but otherwise - from my perspective - I don't see their use.
So in summary I am very glad I bought the Croft.
Last evening I listened to the whole of the Messiah ( Joan Sutherland / Richard Bonynge / ECO, Decca 465-467 3 LP Box Set) and it was glorious. The only criticism I would level is massed voices had some hardness, but overall especially with indivdual voices, it was superb. Really, what does one expect for £1050 (850 ex VAT)? I think it is amazing that Glenn can make and sell something that sounds so good for that price
I'd be a little cautious about ascribing a 'house' sound to Shindo. One of the characteristics of his designs was a restless change of circuit and valves, often within different production batches of the same amplifier model. Thus my Monbrisson turned-out to have a totally different circuit and totally different valves to the 'Monbrisson' reviewed a couple of years earlier. He was an adventurous designer, and, from the various models I have heard, had no real 'house' sound at all.
Glenn Croft makes better value stuff, and does have a distinct house sound (to my ears anyway). Excellent value,,,,but that serious roll-off in the MM circuit is just unacceptable. A 6db inaccuracy well within the audible range is plain wrong; I hope he has sorted that out, or that it was just a sample flaw. Much as I admire the Croft designs I am now more cautious.. A good product should manage both reasonably accurate design and good sound. They aren't in contradiction (are they?).
Glenn Croft makes better value stuff, and does have a distinct house sound (to my ears anyway). Excellent value,,,,but that serious roll-off in the MM circuit is just unacceptable. A 6db inaccuracy well within the audible range is plain wrong; I hope he has sorted that out, or that it was just a sample flaw. Much as I admire the Croft designs I am now more cautious.. A good product should manage both reasonably accurate design and good sound. They aren't in contradiction (are they?).
Hi, I had a Phono Integrated for a little time.
You are aware of the "polarity reversal" discussion that's taking place?
If not, than I advice you to reverse red and black leads on both L and R lsboxes OR on the amplifierside > you'll get a smoother and better integrated sound
(Glenn Croft himself states that all his single boxes have reversed polarity)
Goodluck with your very nice Croft amp!
You are aware of the "polarity reversal" discussion that's taking place?
If not, than I advice you to reverse red and black leads on both L and R lsboxes OR on the amplifierside > you'll get a smoother and better integrated sound
(Glenn Croft himself states that all his single boxes have reversed polarity)
Goodluck with your very nice Croft amp!
lost audiophile
pfm Member
I must say I was similarly perplexed by the measurements but I simply haven't heard this with the phono sections of the 25 pre or 25 Basic pre and neither have several visitors. I also have a Sheffield Labs test CD with various test tones and frequency sweeps and have compared albums in CD and LP formats, so anything this obvious would be clearly audible.
I know Elephantears is currently listening to a Croft RIAA R alongside his Diablo and a Puresound phono stage, and has not reported any loss of treble or frequency deviations. Glenn's designs, especially preamps, are really outstanding and my enthusiasm for Croft remains unabated.
Not something I have noticed...
Not saying the Croft is the best thing in the world - just that I like it and it works fine in my system.
I haven't heard much Shindo - maybe 3 different power amps and a couple line stages - but I certainly liked what I heard very much. My apologies for ascribing them a "house" sound - obviously talking out my arse. They are monstrously expensive bits of kit for sure. Very nice though.
Cheers
ps yup - away of the reversed polarity - same as CJ..
Big John
pfm Member
Years ago after I bought a Cartridgeman (aka Len Gregory) Music Maker cartridge, Len suggested a Croft phono stage & got me a 3 valve Vitale phono stage plus a pair of Mullard box plate 4004's. I susequently silver wired the Croft; sublime sound even when compared to £2000+ phono stages.
Now I am a guinea pig unknowingly using the as yet unreleased replacement for the Music Maker Classic & Classic LE the Cartridgeman "Musicmaster" with sapphire cantilever.
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=156521 (last entry)
The amazing sound coming from my OTA quad 57's via the Musicmaster plus the ability to discern the differences in sound using this cartridge compared to earlier incarnations is made possible because of the of the Croft. I dont care if it may measure badly, it works for me, possibly because I listen to the music played, if it ain't broke don't fix it...
Why silver wire ?
Does this benefit in any way between all the copper ?
I listenend to silver wired speaker wire and it was horrible peaky and screewed timing, despite some impressive midrange which is hard to explain, really tiring
Whats the point using silver as part of copper based signal ?
( I guess none use silver all through?)
JA says people do like 3rd harmonic distortion in his analysis.
I had also read stories about even order harmonics being nice and odd harmonics not so.
I have never had a personal demonstration of this myself, so have no way of knowing for sure.
I would say that JA much be right since the 5% harmonic distortion probably is audible and several listeners like the sound of the Croft, so logically this 5% distortion is an inherent part of people's enjoyment of this amplifier.
There are plenty of popular products which add euphony to the sound to the delight of their owners.
Fair enough.
lost audiophile
pfm Member
Well, we don't know if this is representative of Croft amps.
Have you heard one in your system? I certainly would never describe the Micro 25/Series 7 as euphonic or even warm. They sound clean, open and tonally pretty neutral, with a sweet (as in fluid, non-mechanical) presentation.
I would like to hear a Croft amp in my system, but have not done so. Maybe describing the addition of (probably) audible levels of harmonic distortion should not be described as "euphonic".
Maybe the other Croft amps have less distortion.
I have heard some interesting effects, such as addition of signal correlated low level noise making the recording have a better sense of ambiance and stereo depth, so whilst I can't say what influence a given level and type of harmonic distortion has on the sound it is likely to add something, and it would seem that people like the sound it makes in the Croft Integrated.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
5% 2nd harmonic is barely audible, but odd order is. Having some 3rd and 5th is probably cancelled by the 6dB treble drop. The result is not accurate, but my sound "better", just like Aphex boxes