Cartridge matching to older ears

[epo1]

I'm approaching my 8th decade and will be reviving my old LP collection to mark the occasion. Not played vinyl for decades so hopelessly out of touch. My hearing is good but a not very rigorous hearing test suggests that it tops out at 12KHz at best, it won't improve (well, maybe a bit after cleaning - lugs and LPs).

Given this, does the difference between moving coil and moving magnet matter to me? I believe the differences are in higher frequencies and transients. Could I hear any sonic advantage? Is an MP-500 or Nd7 going to be good enough? I currently have a 2nd hand MP-200 (with say 250 hours use) and my original late 70s Grado F1+ which I am getting new styli (styluses?) for.

My phono stage is a Black Cube SE which is going in to have a 2024 board fitted to bring it up to modern spec. Again, with my hearing would I notice if the resistance or capacitance were not optimal? I can take the top off and make these any value I wish, is there any point in me doing so?

There is the small matter of a turntable which I don't yet have. Using Rega as an example, if I do limit myself to moving magnet/iron would I notice any real difference in turntables, i.e. with, say an MP-500 would a Planar 6 be pretty much as good as an 8 or a 10 to my ears? How about a Planar 3 (the 50th anniversary package is still available)? I'd like an endgame turntable matched to my circumstances and hearing ability.

 

[Retro]

Hi Epo,

I'm 62 next month and like you, my hearing tops out at around 12K.

All I can say in answer to your question is, well I certainly can.

I'd suggest you find a dealer who can dem you a couple of decks and some cartridge options.
I think you will soon know.
Good luck.

Graham.

 

[pfbaat]

There is the small matter of a turntable which I don't yet have. Using Rega as an example, if I do limit myself to moving magnet/iron would I notice any real difference in turntables, i.e. with, say an MP-500 would a Planar 6 be pretty much as good as an 8 or a 10 to my ears? How about a Planar 3 (the 50th anniversary package is still available)? I'd like an endgame turntable matched to my circumstances and hearing ability.

Good summation.

Actually there's very much information in midrange area.

I'd not suggest you buy the most revealing analytical equipment such as RP10/Apheta for example.
Rega P3 50th comes with Exact which is nice full-bodied, upcoming Nd7 could be next choice once you have played the Exact to its end.

That is if your Black Cube phonostage is MM ?

Indeed a P8/Ania Pro is better than P3/Exact, budget plays a role to decide there, not everybody want the skeletal looks.
I've read people detect only minor differences between P3 50th and P6.

Maybe you live nearby a Rega dealer ?

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

If in doubt, find an amp/pre that included the modern forbidden fruit - tone controls! 8-]

 

[Alex S]

In true audiophile fashion I've gone the other way - as my hearing, attention span and ability to not fall asleep or not need a wee have deteriorated, so I have needed a better and better hi-fi.

 

[Mike Reed]

as my hearing, attention span and ability to not fall asleep or not need a wee have deteriorated, so I have needed a better and better hi-fi.

Exactly, though I don't now follow that philosophy as I'm well into my eighties, have poor hearing (prescribed hearing aids but never wear them) but still thoroughly enjoy my weekly sessions, whether radio, vinyl, cd or a combo (which is normal). It's hifi and I still cherish the thought of upgrading but probably won't now, as apart from silly money cart's, I don't think I'd achieve anything but a different presentation. One can dream, but I'm not aware of any elixir that reverses age and restores hearing.

Epo1, you're nearly an octogenarian, have (i.m.o.) hearing to die for at your age and have (presumably) a vinyl collection you want to revisit and enjoy. The unknown element here is the amount of pension you're prepared to spend on it. but a decent RCM really is a must. Whatever you choose , by research, suggestions on here, sensible compatibility decisions, if you buy used (from here, e.g.) you'll have an investment where the dividend is pleasure and depreciation is lowered considerably. I'd say the cart. may be an exception here and maybe sth else.

Also, take your time, because the learning curve is not a steep one and mistakes can be made. I think, before any kit suggestions can be feasibly suitable, one needs to know the ancillary kit and music preferences; even projected listening habits and of course, your aptitude in fettling/set-up etc.

 

[epo1]

Epo1, you're nearly an octogenarian,

10 years younger, (1st decade up to 10 ... 8th decade up to 80). I did loud concerts in my youth but being in IT managed to avoid industrial noise, and motor bikes.

Thanks all for the interesting replies. You know it never occurred to me to go to a hifi dealer for a demo, how the web has tainted my expectations, and this from someone who used to haunt hifi- and book- shops in my youth.

 

[epo1]

If in doubt, find an amp/pre that included the modern forbidden fruit - tone controls! 8-]

Using a Revox B250S (from @canonman) with more controls than I have yet managed to explore.

 

[Tony L]

I’d not assume any inherent superiority to either MM or MC, or for that matter MI and whatever the hell a Decca is. Just different technologies each with its own plusses and minuses. Good and bad examples to be found everywhere, and marching to arm and phono stage can often eclipse price band or review consensus. There is a lot of proper technology and physics in record replay, and never one easy answer.

That said on a more general level the older one gets and the more one’s hearing deteriorates the stronger the argument for a better system IMHO. The clarity, dynamic ease and headroom of a genuinely good system just makes it easier to hear things. I’m now 60, my ears are clearly not what they were in my teens, yet I have a genuinely good hi-fi system by any standards and I can hear and understand music now as well as I ever have done. I’m still hungry for new music, I haven’t slowed down exploring at all, so the kit is doing exactly what it needs to do. I’d not want to compromise and lose any of that clarity and dynamic headroom, I recognise as time goes on I’ll need it more than ever. I’m not talking about playing loud either, just how much easier it is to make sense of things when presented with real scale and dynamic ease.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I’d not assume any inherent superiority to either MM or MC, or for that matter MI and whatever the hell a Decca is. Just different technologies each with its own plusses and minuses. Good and bad examples to be found everywhere, and marching to arm and phono stage can often eclipse price band or review consensus.

I'd agree. I comes down to the skill, effort, etc, input by the engineers and their target performance. Thing is that Shure put a *lot* of practical research and development effort into things that rarely get mentioned. e.g. the nature and behaviour of the suspension system for the cantalever. Found and used a material whose 'stiffness' varies with frequency and dodged some of the tradeoffs other makers faced from the conflicting requirements of HF and LF, for example. Alas, a lot of the skill was then in the experience and judgment of the people making the cartridges, etc. So evaporated when they abandoned making the V15 and focussed on mics instead - assuming Lp was 'dead'. Tragic mistake for understandable reasons.

Maybe one day that'd be re-done. But needs someone with time and pockets and faith that LP *will* continue for long enough to repay the effort.

 

[Mike Reed]

the older one gets and the more one’s hearing deteriorates the stronger the argument for a better system IMHO. The clarity, dynamic ease and headroom of a genuinely good system just makes it easier to hear things.

I've not evaluated that theory as I've improved my system throughout my hifi life and esp. in the last 15 or so years. However, your 'aging/upgrade' philosophy certainly holds water. There must be an end stop, though, and I feel it coming on !

 

[gez]

I'm approaching my 8th decade and will be reviving my old LP collection to mark the occasion. Not played vinyl for decades so hopelessly out of touch. My hearing is good but a not very rigorous hearing test suggests that it tops out at 12KHz at best, it won't improve (well, maybe a bit after cleaning - lugs and LPs).

Given this, does the difference between moving coil and moving magnet matter to me? I believe the differences are in higher frequencies and transients. Could I hear any sonic advantage? Is an MP-500 or Nd7 going to be good enough? I currently have a 2nd hand MP-200 (with say 250 hours use) and my original late 70s Grado F1+ which I am getting new styli (styluses?) for.

My phono stage is a Black Cube SE which is going in to have a 2024 board fitted to bring it up to modern spec. Again, with my hearing would I notice if the resistance or capacitance were not optimal? I can take the top off and make these any value I wish, is there any point in me doing so?

There is the small matter of a turntable which I don't yet have. Using Rega as an example, if I do limit myself to moving magnet/iron would I notice any real difference in turntables, i.e. with, say an MP-500 would a Planar 6 be pretty much as good as an 8 or a 10 to my ears? How about a Planar 3 (the 50th anniversary package is still available)? I'd like an endgame turntable matched to my circumstances and hearing ability.

The way to look at this is as follows: Your hearing "loss" is minimal. If you can still hear up to 12k (of course you can actually hear higher than that but to do so would require far higher volumes), then you've lost a maximum of (less than) 10% of the maximum frequency range you were able to hear as a teenager. Given just how little actual musical information there is above 12khz in practice (in terms of musical energy), then your hearing "loss" is actually pretty negligable in the context of musical reproduction, and even more so when you consider you spent the majority of your life not being able to hear above 16-17khz anyway. The whole humans can hear 20-20 thing is pretty much a myth anyway. It's only ever true when very young, even in your 20's your hearing loss has started and by 30 you'll have already lost the ablity to hear the very highest frequencies compared to when you were 15. For the vast majority of our lives we can't hear up to 20khz, but we're ignorant of that fact so we don't worry about it.

All of that is a long winded way of just saying: don't deliberately purchase reproduction equipment that isn't capable of reproducing up to 20khz.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

If anything, when it comes to LPs, hearing deterioration above c 10kHz means you just miss the common ducks and dives in HF response and distortion of many cartridges - indeed from lathes, etc. Enjoy the *music*. Remember QUAD's affection for HF filters... and the BBC's use of optimod for FM R3 tending to hold back the HF... 8-]