advertisement


Carillion

gassor said:
Maybe someone on here could elaborate what John McDonnell means by the statement below as an alternative to PFI. What is he wanting to take into public ownership? What is he proposing as an alternative to PFI?

"And it’s why I announced last September that we would move to bring existing deals in-house by taking ownership of the special purpose vehicles to deliver savings for the taxpayer."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...r-demolish-outsourcing-model?CMP=share_btn_fb
Click to expand...

The "special purpose vehicles" - or SPVs - McDonnell is refering to are free standing joint venture companies set up by groups of companies to tender for specific contracts or groups of contracts.

A PFI SPV might consist of, say, a construction company, a catering company and a facilities management company (an oversimplification but you get the drift). It will be a separate legal entity, jointly owned by, and with financial guarantees issued by, the parent companies. Generally speaking their only assets/liabilities will be their contracts.

I think it is these SPVs which McDonnell is suggesting could be bought into public ownership.
 
Construction Enquirer opinion on the way forward for construction http://www.constructionenquirer.com...on-legacy-must-be-pay-and-procurement-reform/
The end result is always the same – main contractors and clients stop short of guaranteeing to pay on time.

So specialists are faced with a regular fight for cash as bills still go unpaid for months.

In effect the trade contractors are financing their employers who hold onto cash owed by them.

It’s a rotten system and totally dysfunctional.

The government needs to act immediately to bring in legal limits on payment terms.

The hated retentions system must also be reformed and eventually removed.
Click to expand...
 
Agree, re the payment terms situation, this is an area that has long needed addressing.
 
Main contractors usually have divisions for Projects,Civil Engineering, House Building etc, to find out that this mob were also involved in management of cleaning and catering etc defies belief.As a former senior buyer one of the key questions I asked before allocating work was about existing and current work load of sub contractors.
The same assessment should also be applied to main contractors.
 
palacefan said:
Main contractors usually have divisions for Projects,Civil Engineering, House Building etc, to find out that this mob were also involved in management of cleaning and catering etc defies belief.As a former senior buyer one of the key questions I asked before allocating work was about existing and current work load of sub contractors.
The same assessment should also be applied to main contractors.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid this highlights a big problem in that many people only know companies by their well-known name. A Companies House check for "Carillion" reveals no less than 8 pages (157 matches) of registered Carillion companies, and it is absolutely essential that people know which of these legal entities they are actually giving a contract to, and then check the finances of that individual company.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=carillion
 
TheDecameron said:
I remember back in the day, the school toilets were proper draughty and there was that paper that jagged your bum. Then Mrs. Thatcher came, weaned us off the free milk and changed the social industrial landscape for ever. I’ve never looked back- I can afford quilted toilet paper now. Dad would be proud.
Click to expand...

molee said:
The straw man took a right pummeling there....
Click to expand...

So you only wish to think about politics from Mrs Thatcher on ?
If you assume she was the worst thing to happen in politics since the second world war, perhaps an insight of how she became elected would help prevent a future repetition ?

The 1976 IMF Crisis was a financial crisis in the United Kingdom in 1976 which forced James Callaghan's Labour Party government to borrow $3.9 billion from the International Monetary Fund (IMF),[1] the largest loan ever requested from the IMF.
The IMF loan meant that the United Kingdom's economy could be stabilised whilst drastic budget cuts were implemented. Even with the loan's security, the Labour Party had already begun unravelling into camps of social democrats and left-wing supporters, which caused bitter rows inside the party and with the unions. Many believe this may have contributed significantly to Margaret Thatcher's 1979 Conservative victory


Onwards and upwards to the Winter Of Discontent

Public sector employee strike actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside, and strikes by refuse collectors. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.[3]

https://www.ft.com/content/3b583050-d277-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0

So putting everything back into state control will solve all our problems ?

regards - Strawdog.
 
merlin said:
In all countries? No. In our closest neighbours and similar social and economic models? Yes most likely.

We subsidise our rail network by about £3bn per annum AFAIK. That's a loss. Profits go to the shareholders and managements of the franchised partners who ship a lot of that overseas and avoid tax.

7.5 billion baht represents approximately £175 million so something close to just 20% of the losses being incurred here from what I can see.
Click to expand...

We've got a ridership of 1.7 billion, so subsidy is about £1.75/rider vs. £3.90/rider for Thailand. (I think the comparison makes about as much sense as comparing the cost of a melon vs. a potato, though..)
 
Wow i’ve seen some desperate postings on PFM over the years but that is up there with the most memorable.

Try working on the cost to the tax payer. Look at populations. And if you want do delve further have a look at ticket prices as a percentage of average earnings. Then come back and tell me privatisation is a good thing.

I’ve used Thailand obviously as i am here and the question was raised. Try any of our European neighbours if you would prefer
 
Misterdog...

More exaggeration and bollox has been written about the so called 'Winter of Discontent' than practically any other political event in my lifetime.

Sadly,whatever actually happened, very little attention is paid to the causes of the discontent.

You might also want to actually re-consider your assertion that anybody here is talking about putting 'everything' back into state control.

The pendulum has swung much too far in favour of private enterprise involvement in the provision of Public Services, which, for me includes infrastructure, transport etc., all of which are deteriorating across the board (unless you live in the South East of course..) Th attack on Local Govt. is causing further damage.

Addressing this does not imply 'state control of everything'.
 
Mike Reed said:
Ridership? New one on me, or is it equestrian-speak? Please enlighten me.
Click to expand...

It's the terminology used on the wikipedia article. Passenger journeys is what I would use.

merlin said:
Try working on the cost to the tax payer. Look at populations. And if you want do delve further have a look at ticket prices as a percentage of average earnings. Then come back and tell me privatisation is a good thing.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies

Germany 4.66 passenger Km per Euro of subsidy
France 6.35 passenger Km per Euro of subsidy
Italy 5.22 passenger Km per Euro of subsidy
Spain 4.8 passenger Km per Euro of subsidy
UK 14.4 passenger Km per Euro of subsidy

orr.gov.uk said:
Since 2004 the UK has seen a 48.8% growth in passenger kilometres, which is higher than the average growth across the European Union of 17.5%8 . The only country with a higher percentage growth in passenger kilometres was Luxembourg with an increase of 61.7%. However in absolute terms the growth in Luxembourg is much smaller than that of the UK. Compared to the UK, France and Germany have seen smaller increases in passenger kilometres between 2004 and 2014, with increases of 20.4% and 19.9% respectively.
Click to expand...

So we managed to have the highest growth with the one of the lowest subsidies..
 
Th
Richard Nichola said:
It's the terminology used on the Wikipedia article. Passenger journeys is what I would use.
Click to expand...

Thanks. looked it up (New O.E.D.); its derivation is from North America (should have guessed !). By the same token, 'championship' would be how many champions does it take to prove some point or other ! Mind you, it's the first time I've heard of passengers in any form of mass transport being called 'riders', though roof-hugging railway coaches in India may come close, I s'pose. Even a motorcycle passenger is called 'pillion'. Silly.
 
And how much of increased demand for rail travel is down to poor management of roads? Cones for miles seems to be the prevalent roadbuilding methodology.
 
What Richard has failed to be honest about is that. Under the current system , the taxpayer is subsidising rail travel to the tune of twice as much as under BR, even taking taking inflation into account
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top Bottom