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Bonkers cartridge prices

M

Mikeandvan

Banned
Please can anyone explain whether there is justification for the insane prices of cartridges? There seem to be a great many in the £200 region which get a lot of respect. If we go from say Ortofon Blue - about £200? to Ortofon Black - £500, is there anything materially to justify the price leap? (please note this is not a snipe at Ortofon!, just use it as an example). As someone mentioned on the AOS forum, they suspect that the sound quality of the lower priced carts is purposefully 'held back'. Of course then we enter the realm of £1000+ carts..... I know audiophile pricing in general is a bit erratic, but with carts, the differences are less obvious. I currently use a Denon DL 110, I had a Rondo Red but the damn thing bent, think I should stay away from any £200+ cart.....
 
The Black 2M has a vastly better stylus compared to Red or Blue. All the super expensive cartridges are hand-made. The expertise, time and small production runs required are not general commodities that come cheap.

In general, hifi costs as much as the market can bear. Better quality kit always attract better prices. Hence, you get what you pay - generally.
 
At the very least the more you pay the better tip-profile you tend to get, and better tip profiles equate to real gains in tracking, tracing, reducing end of side distortion etc. More expensive carts are better than cheap carts, of that there is little doubt, and some of the very expensive ones really are in a different ballpark. The other thing that needs to be stated is there are exceptionally few UK cart manufacturers (Rega, Goldring and London/Decca are the only ones that come to mind) and the Tory-Brexit £ crash has just bounced all the others up by 15-20% or more as far as we are concerned. It is truly scary something like a Nagaoka MP-500 (a decent spec MM) is now somewhere between £700-800!
 
IME, the real issue is getting a proper A-B comparison of cartridges with all other factors equal.
 
As someone else mentioned, they will charge what the market will bear. Note the increases in prices of Lyra and Dynavector models (made in Japan) in the past four or five years, despite, in general a weakening yen and stronger dollar. Yet, they supposedly are often backordered.

Not sure that Ortofon's Cadenza line really justified the huge price increases above the prior Kontrapunkt line either, in terms of cost to manufacture.
 
Vinyl Giraffe said:
As someone else mentioned, they will charge what the market will bear. Note the increases in prices of Lyra and Dynavector models (made in Japan) in the past four or five years, despite, in general a weakening yen and stronger dollar. Yet, they supposedly are often backordered.

Not sure that Ortofon's Cadenza line really justified the huge price increases above the prior Kontrapunkt line either, in terms of cost to manufacture.
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The Cadenza line (well those I've heard at length) are stunning. I had a kontapunkt B for a while and it comprehensively mullered the Linn Klyde it replaced but the Cadenza blue was a fair step up, the Cadenza black that I'm currently running is better still and I Just don't feel any need for more.
 
I bought the Dynavector 20L about three years back £550, I can't believe it's north of £700 now. I wouldn't mind but I can't see why it gets recommended so much. It's ok but I find it a bit polite for my tastes. Have recently gone back to an AT440 moving magnet and am more than happy in my set up with a micro line stylus that's banished end of side distortion for me and only £149.
I think also if you are using a more costly cartridge you really need the appropriate phono amp to get the best from the cartridge.
 
amazement said:
I think also if you are using a more costly cartridge you really need the appropriate phono amp to get the best from the cartridge.
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Agreed. Vinyl replay really is an area where spending pays dividends. One of comparatively few in audio. In many ways it is too rich for me as the real fun comes with the stuff Fremer etc review in Stereophile. The mid-level/vintage stuff I use (currently a TD-124/3009/540/II via a Croft RIAA stage or a modified Quad 34) betters my relatively high-end Deltec PDM3 DAC on many though certainly not all titles, but I seldom have the night and day difference I've heard from some systems with carts costing £thousands etc. I'm a record dealer too, so chances are my records are way better than most folks as I get the opportunity to contrast and compare different pressings etc. One thing I just don't get about the current 'vinyl revival' as to my ears to beat a nice £300 CD player you actually have to spend rather a lot of money.
 
Yebbut.. unlike the pretty much continuous interest in vinyl among 'audiophiles' who were already invested in it, the current revival seems to be largely a 'fad' amongst the young, who frankly have no idea what vinyl should sound like.
 
Mullardman said:
Yebbut.. unlike the pretty much continuous interest in vinyl among 'audiophiles' who were already invested in it, the current revival seems to be largely a 'fad' amongst the young, who frankly have no idea what vinyl should sound like.
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This is the thing I don't get, e.g. why on earth would someone who's exposure to music is via the relatively high-end performance of a iPhone and headphones be even remotely convinced by the scratchy thin and tinny sound of some awful £60 Crossley or whatever portable record player. An iPhone just slays this stuff.
 
Mullardman said:
Yebbut.. unlike the pretty much continuous interest in vinyl among 'audiophiles' who were already invested in it, the current revival seems to be largely a 'fad' amongst the young, who frankly have no idea what vinyl should sound like.
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That was always the case, even in the days when the only mass playback medium was vinyl. 'Audiophiles' were just lucky that most of the record companies produced LPs that were better than most of the equipment they were played on.
 
abbydog said:
Understand 'healthy' margins = understand the Dynavector thing
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That's some margin, well over a 30% increase and this is before Brexit.
The company I am a buyer for purchases certain items from France, so far there have ben no price increases from them post Brexit. Slightly off topic there, sorry.
 
amazement said:
I bought the Dynavector 20L about three years back £550, I can't believe it's north of £700 now. I wouldn't mind but I can't see why it gets recommended so much. It's ok but I find it a bit polite for my tastes. Have recently gone back to an AT440 moving magnet and am more than happy in my set up with a micro line stylus that's banished end of side distortion for me and only £149.
I think also if you are using a more costly cartridge you really need the appropriate phono amp to get the best from the cartridge.
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Hi, whats 'end of side' distortion?
 
Diminishing or should that be vanishing returns apply very heavily to cartridges. I have a couple of decent MM's as stand bys, a Hana SL which I think is superb and still underpriced even after the recent price rise, and a Lyra Titan.

The Lyra Titan is quite easily the best at retrieving the most detail. But is it worth many multiples of the Hana? For most people probably not, but if you have the kit and want to get that last bit off your records then the premiums are steep I'm afraid.

Your best bet is to never listen to a really well set up expensive vinyl front end and then you'll never be plagued by what you've missed.
 
Mikeandvan said:
Hi, whats 'end of side' distortion?
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it's noticeable on the last track on each side of the record, more noticeable on some records more than others or tracks such as ballads or quieter tunes. From what I understand a microline stylus closely resembles the cutter when a record is made so the theory goes produces less distortion towards the end of a playing record. Others on here may have a better grasp of what I'm trying to say.
I have certainly noticed better tracking with the microline stylus on the AT440.
 
I used to run an Ittok, Troika on my LP12 and realized that the replacement cartridge prices were becoming quite an issue, to the point that I was starting to ration my listening to only being in the room whilst records were playing not having them waft through the house as I used to.

I then did a dem of my existing setup versus an EkosII and Dyna 10x4 and found that I pretty much enjoyed them both equally. Pros and cons to both set-ups to my ears.

I bought the EkosII and Dyna 10x4 and am now on my second 10x5 after a couple of 10x4's along the way.

More importantly I still have the music wafting through the house and I don't worry too much about the cartridge life.

This said a new 10x5 is not far off what a Troika cost back then..!
 
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